kitekrazy

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) It is a real concern that is completely glossed over by the melt it down crowd. Even after a minimal move like the Jackson deal, there were already people starting to talk about White Flag trades. Because of the history of this organization, you can't sell off everything, and expect people to show up. I'm not even talking about the 10% drop. I am talking about a massive drop off. If we sold off completely the season ticket base would drop by a large percentage, as would the payroll. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have seen a $70 to $75 million payroll in 2012. In our case that would mean Dunn, Rios, and maybe Konerko somehow. That number would death spiral until our farm system started producing. Which if you are talking about a real turnover, you would be talking about 3 to 5 years, if it worked. I couldn't trust this organization as it is now to do a rebuild in 5 years.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:13 PM) I still go back & forth on it. He has had a bad year managing, but I still like him and think he can be a good manager. And it's not like KW has handed him a full deck to work with. Ozzie's worst move may be holding on to Greg Walker. There's a pattern that is too consistent with the lineup every year that indicate a change needs to be made. There's also players from other organizations that seem to get worse under Ozzie since 2007. Things aren't clicking anymore.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 07:52 AM) Seems to me from his reaction to the first question that now he wants an extension beyond 2012. Who in their right mind would want to manage this team?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 10:19 PM) WHY do you people argue who is worse, honestly? They are both not very good, and they both ought to be fired. Does anybody disagree that they both should be fired? Well if Walker was in this poll the thread would die on the first page.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) They both have had a couple bad years, will need some time off, but will both get jobs and have a chance to succeed. Not bad years, just bad moves. Those can have a lasting impact.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 10:03 PM) He'd be offered a manager spot by the Marlins. That's it. No where else would TOUCH Ozzie. The Atlanta Braves wanted Ozzie per Steve Stone.

QUOTE (T R U @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 09:33 PM) I don't even think there is any proof KW made those guys available at all.. If I had to guess, KW thought we still had a chance and had no intentions of trading any of those guys by the deadline.. of course we respond by most likely losing 6 games in a row and ending any glimmer of hope.. And poor Adam Dunn, there is about a ZERO percent chance he can end the year hitting over .200 He probably had more than you think on the trading block.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) Posada was pretty close to being in that exact same position (as Dunn) and he recovered quite nicely. But some of their big-contract pitchers like Irabu (very sad about his suicide), Contreras, Igawa, Pavano, etc., tanked almost as badly as pitchers as Dunn has offensively...more or less the equivalent. Or Lackey and Dice-K with the Red Sox. It doesn't seem to effect them as much unlike this organization.

QUOTE (WHITESOXRANDY @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 09:42 PM) It's not even close. Kenny Williams is by FAR worse than Ozzie. Ozzie would be hired by many teams in baseball to manage. KW would never be offered another GM job. The results of this poll are the most ridiculous of any I have seen on here. Hard to disagree with that. I hope Al Davis gives Kenny a call.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 02:49 PM) Somewhere in the afterlife, Billy Martin was just fired because you wrote this. and rehired......

It looks like history is repeating itself no matter how you change the roster. It's August and it's time to threaten to finish in 4th place again.

QUOTE (onedude @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 02:51 PM) If Rios is starting today, there absolutely has to be something going on with KW and Ozzie. He's basically been saying f*** you KW for the last 4 games. Possibly hoping for a waiver claim. We have no idea how much the Sox are willing to pay on the rest of his salary.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 06:40 PM) Honestly, the amount of contradiction and non-sense Ozzie has done and said this year is mind blowing. Does he really think the average Sox fan is that dumb and gonna believe everything he says? And I can't honestly believe Ozzie believes anything he is saying either. I have never been a big Ozzie fan, but never in my wildest dreams ever thought he could be this ridiculously bad as a manger. It really seems like he is doing a George Costanza and really trying to get fired. Since when is a manager, coach, GM ever honest in the media?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 2, 2011 -> 06:48 AM) You could probably add AJ to the trade list except we don't have any legit prospects behind him to take his place. Have to get them back through trades of the players you already mentioned. A bad farm system forces you to over pay guys like that. I hope they commit long term to AJ and use him in the farm system. He seems like one of the few in this organization that really knows the game.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 04:02 PM) You honestly don't believe they'd bring Ozzie back if they won the division? I am about 100% sure that he would be back. Only to fulfill the final season of his contract. That would also depend on what the Cardinals do with LaRussa. If LaRussa is available next season then I think Jerry says goodbye to Ozzie. Maybe they trade him to the Marlins. Even if the season tanks, does it really guarantee any firings? Maybe not. JR's loyalty/nepotism might be his biggest weakness. That could be the reason why this organization is in such a decline.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 03:56 PM) I think making the playoffs would be great. There's nothing like postseason baseball. I agree. I can't wish for my favorite team to lose every game at the expense of bad management. It's unnatural. Championships are not always won by the best but who is hot at the time. Expecting the Sox to be hot in the post season is even beyond believing time travel is possible. They have yet to really do this in 2011. Who knows, they may add another player in FA if they make the post season. Everyone can dream I guess.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) I almost expect them to go into Minnesota and sweep them because that's the type of s*** they do. Sweeping the Twins or taking 2/3 is something they will never do.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) Perhaps all those proposed moves (specifically Williams and Guillen) are inevitable at the end of this season, but I'd rather not take a chance. If their future is tied to the success of this current team, I am rooting for failure. Unlike 2007 when I was rooting for failure for the opportunity to draft higher, our current failures this year will do more for shaping our future than any potential 1st round bust. I'd rather take the chance of an abysmal second half leading to the firing of Williams and Guillen than the chance this team pulls together a miracle, makes the playoffs, and wins the World Series. Don't need anything, even our own success (however slim) prolonging the careers of those two with this organization. People assume winning a division in professional sports is some type of job security. I think only a World Series or the championship series will save them. If they win this division it will be because they didn't win it, just some other team lost it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) If ARod came out for a season and hit .160 while seemingly being completely healthy, and Granderson fell apart and hit .200 with no power and was dogging it constantly on the field...the Yankees would be changing coaching staff members pretty quick. No they wouldn't. No one will ever hit .160 on the Yankees. There's 1000s of reasons for that. One is they are surrounded by talent that will make them perform better. They are just as patient as any other organization when it comes to coaches. Their fan base surely thought that with Torre and now Girardi. Failure has a different meanig in New York. They have a great cash flow so a bad contract doesn't hurt them. It's rare for them to have a bad one. Players come to the Sox to have career setbacks. Comparing anything the Yankees would do vs. the Sox organization is really an apple and oranges comparison. One sucks the other doesn't.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) IIRC he chose to defer the money to future years. Instead of paying him like $20 million in one season, they were allowed to pay him most of it in future years, making him much more tradeable to other teams. They are probably defaulting on those payments now with their bankruptcy issues. Either way, I think he still was set to receive the entire contract. That just allows the owners to spend more foolishly and toss that mistake on to the consumer. It also inflates the value of free agency.

How much more can we contribute when anything and everything sucks about this organization? Your are really going to have to take a bigger responsibility and really gut out this organization. You need a new GM. The coaching staff needs to go. Maybe save Cooper. Scouting and development needs to improve. Is there a philosophy that is consistent through the whole organization? If I had to guess, they think baseball is an offensive sport. What I see is no concept of fundamentals and extremely poor plate discipline. Within the past few years I've seen players from other teams come here only to have the worst seasons of their careers. What is up with that? Only you Mr. Chairman can fix this mess. All coaches,managers, and scouts in this organization needs to be heavily reviewed. As a fan of this team, my interest has now become only casual. This is a dull and lifeless product. Pleas don't use the excuse that if more fans show the product will improve. No one has ever bought that theory. I can't imagine the American auto industry using that theory. So please fix my team. This current group isn't working.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 02:01 PM) I'm missing something here. Somebody blasted me for telling Mrs. Teahen she looked good instead of the way Oney described her. Then somebody said looks had nothing to do with it even though most of her post was about looks. She thanked me for the compliment in one of her ensuing posts. What am I missing here? Where did I become evil again? Kill this post if it takes the thread in a weird direction but what is goin on ? It's just BigSqwert using another opportunity to insult a member of this forum.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 02:53 AM) Nobody hates Dunn the person, seems like a nice guy, we hate that he got a huge contract and is producing what I basically could've given the White Sox at a much cheaper price. That's one of Kenny's weaknesses. He likes to abuse resources at the DH position. He probably could have gotten Thome for less with that trade. Thome's final year was with the Sox was $14M. (another reason why I hate the DH) Having him sign elsewhere was an ethical decision. It doesn't look good to sign the same player for about $10M less.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) I am sure they would too And that's not saying anything bad about unions, but maybe a different contract approach is something teams should consider. MLBPA is the prefect reason that make unions bad.

Good players often make any manager look good. IF you manage the Yankees and win the Series you are assumed a good manager. Good players are more dependent on your GM.