The Sir

This is dumb. Moncada was a super highly regarded prospect who looked pretty nice and shiny, but also struck out a lot in the minors. Luis Robert is a super highly regarded prospect who looks pretty nice and shiny, but also strikes out a lot in the minors. Maybe you're joking about the Cuban thing, but it's not crazy to see similarities and be a little unnerved by them.

In very limited samples, him striking out at over 20% in the lower levels of the minors is a bit worrisome. Yeah, yeah, he's young, he'll develop, etc, but it's still a problem that needs to get under control.

I know what you're getting at, but it's also a big indicator of how useless BA is in today's game. By not walking and hitting for almost no power, Engel is still over .100 .090 OPS down from Moncada. Yikes. I don't care about a few great catches- dude is not long for MLB. Edit: Adam's OPS jumped a bit today, but the point remains the same.

Three run bomb for Eloy.

Rodon will be there for sure. Lopez and Giolito will be there. Lopez has been decent enough to earn another year, even if he's started to fade and his peripherals are unimpressive. Giolito is too highly regarded to be discarded after one year, and even though his overall numbers are horrible, he's shown hope in the last two months or so. Covey is a nobody, and I think the ship has sailed on Fulmer (as a starter, at least). Kopech and Stephens should fill the final two slots. If anyone struggles, and I'm really looking at Stephens and Giolito on this one, Cease and to a lesser extent Adams and maybe even Dunning will be waiting.

I've read interviews with Nick where he discusses how he feels about striking out, and how it's pretty much the most embarrassing thing that can happen to him at the plate. I don't think he's going to change all that now.

I've been on this board in some fashion for well over a decade. Trust me, I know. And again, nobody is calling him a bust, AT ALL, but I know I've seen people who aren't high on him. But the dude is going to be a valuable MLB contributor.

I just don't get why some people would be down on Madrigal, honestly. No one's saying he'll bust but some people aren't excited about him. To me, he is the second surest thing in our system after Eloy. Yes, more than control-issue Kopech, and way more than injury-prone, hit-tool issue Luis Robert (I am excited about these two, but they have flaws that will kill their game if they don't control them). Just doing a quick comparison, look at Andrelton Simmons. He doesn't strike out, he has some speed, and plays defense. He put up a 5.1 fWAR last year, and is at 4.4 this year. That's what Madrigal will do, except I think his hit tool is even more potent than Simmons'. So what if he doesn't hit for power? He doesn't have to. I'll make a prediction right now: In 2020, Madrigal puts up 4 fWAR and wins the ROY.

And Madrigal K'ed again.

Madrigal and Gonzalez with a hit. Spencer Adams, 6 IP, 3 R, 3 BBs, 5 Hs, only 2 Ks. Dude just doesn't miss bats. Eloy hitless.

I can't speak for footlong, but I've rooted for this team for 25 years. That started when I was six. I moved to a foreign country in that time frame, long before MLBTV was a thing, and later I went off to participate in a war, and even if I haven't watched every game because the circumstances in my life were too severe, I've at the very least checked the box score following every game, in every season, for two and a half decades. This is as much part of me as my own name. I can't walk away simply because the FO is incompetent for what is a relative sliver of time.

K-rate in his first two seasons, which is roughly what you were going with, was less than 10%, with a .262 BABIP.

Oh my God, you mean Yoan Moncada's not coming here to get hitting advice?!?!?! Why didn't anybody warn me?!?!?! Dude, we have entire threads on trade proposals. We endlessly discuss whether Eloy and Kopech should be brought up now or next year. We can and do discuss why Moncada is struggling. That's what makes a message board interesting, regardless of the fact that it has no impact on the actual team. No, I'm not suggesting we just have endless doom and gloom about Moncada, but I do think blaming umpires for the struggle of a top prospect is pointless, and that we can and should discuss what steps he could take to eventually live up to his hype. If I'm just supposed to write "WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" when something cool happens, I'll spend my time elsewhere.

Uh, I'll take "Reactions that don't rationalize and excuse failure for people who made $31.5 million to play a game" for $1,000, Alec.

Cool. So we traded the best pitcher in White Sox history for a dude who will strike out 230 times with a sub .700 OPS, but it's OK because the umps hate this one guy for some reason and gyp him constantly. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

I just don't get it. Do we want him to get better or do we just want him to be protected? We keep hearing about his amazing batting eye, but honestly, when you strike out looking as much as he does, I question how amazing it is. He needs to be more aggressive early in counts because his splits bear out that he is actually successful in those situations. When he gets two strikes on him, however, he is up shit-creek, batting eye be damned.

I'd say you strongly implied it, and IIRC, you were talking about his strike zone yesterday too. I just don't get why the umpires get any mention is this. Right now, the kid is playing terribly. I don't want to demote him and I don't want to bench him, because he needs reps, but I don't want to make excuses for him either. His game needs serious work.

This is really tiring. Is there any point where Moncada is actually held responsible for his failures, or are we just going to blame his struggles on umpires? He can get better and he can continue to develop, but we can't just treat him like a golden boy. Right now, he's struck out 17 times in his last 29 PAs. That is NOT the umpires' fault.

I'd move Madrigal and Cease up by one spot each, dropping Robert by two. Bump Rutherford to 6, Dunning to 7, Basabe to 8 and Gonzalez to 10. Leave Collins at 9 and Adolfo at 11. Think Call should be higher than 29 as well.

1 for his last 25, with 3 BBs and 16 Ks. 8 hits (3 XBHs) since the ASB with 31 Ks in 84 PAs. He needs to continue to get reps, but this is embarrassing. He's going to obliterate the record for Ks in a season.

I love how elated ReyLo looked. That was great.

I wouldn't trade anyone yet. Some of those guys will fail, unfortunately, and if you somehow have extras who earn a spot in Chicago, you could fill the DH spot and maybe even 1B.

You're missing my point. I want, as I'm sure every Sox fan does, that our rebuild leads to sustainable winning. And I feel that if, at the end of 2024, we're sitting around going, "damn, I really wish we had waited to bring Eloy up so we could be good for one more year", then we're doing it wrong. 2025 and 2026 (for the 4/12 crowd) will depend on how we develop the younger guys, and draft new ones. And I don't see 2020 as out of the question. The Astros, Royals and Cubs all went from shit to great real quick (the Royals even went back to shit). We have a lot of young talent that is either here or knocking on the door. With proper development and a good FA signing or two, do you not think we can win 85+ in two years?

True. It might be that Rutherford is knocking on the door, and Adolfo is still shiny enough to trade for something proven, and the rest of the guys went the way of Jameson Fisher. My point though was more of "a bird in the bush is worth two in the hand." If Robert and Eloy are budding superstars in two thirds of our OF, and Palka is a very solid player in the other third, do you want to give him less ABs just to see if Rutherford's nice AAA production translates to MLB production? Is he still the trading piece, or is Rutherford? What do you think?

At what point can they prove that they're not just that? Let's say Eloy comes up and does what we all expect him to do. LF of the future. Meanwhile, Palka hits 30 HRs next year, and because he cuts down on Ks a bit and learned to take a few more walks, his OPS goes up to .850. Does this again in 2020. Defense improves to passable in RF. Robert takes over in CF and is as advertised. The remaining notable OFs are Basabe, Rutherford, Adolfo, Gonzalez and maybe a few others. They're doing good, but still mere prospects, while Palka is a 29 year old with three more years of control who has proven he can and will hit 30 bombs in a year from the left side. When do you flip the switch and recognize that your prospects are the actual trade chips? Not saying it will happen, but I think as high as we get during the rebuild that certain prospects are the future, we ought to consider possible usurpers. It's a good problem to have.