The Sir

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 08:30 PM) It seems line Moncada goes down 0-2 in the count in the first 2 pitches of every at bat. I thought the same thing. Also, Moncada is going to get a ton of IF hits with that speed. Amazing that he can make a closer play of a routine grounder to short than Tim can on a chopper to the hole at short. In other news, I know he's gonna get plenty more time, but I personally am losing patience with TA.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 10:41 AM) Delmon Young had no range, no instincts, and not much of an arm. He was awful defensively. I believe you, and I appreciate this back-and-forth, but I maintain that none of those things outweighed what he could do at the plate. Edited to say "none" instead of "one".

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 10:09 AM) For starters, RBI is the most useless statistic in the game of baseball. In 2003, Barry Bonds hit .341/.529/.749/1.278 with 45 homers. He had 90 RBI. If you tell me he wasn't the best hitter in the game of baseball that year, I will be OK if I never talk baseball with you again. Secondly, that year you're talking about, he hit .298/.333/.493 with 21 homers. That was included. Of course, he was one of the worst defensive players in the majors, so that was rightly taken out. Thus, he was a slightly below average player, though an above average hitter. Third, Melky Cabrera is a doubles hitter. He is not fast, he does not have a lot of power, he is not a great base runner, he is a below average defender, and he doesn't have much of an arm. He is a below average regular. He is a good hitter! But he is about a 1 WAR player. There is a reason he is a starter on the worst team in the AL and that he has not been moved yet. In the end, if you don't want to pay attention to WAR, that's fine, but it's widely accepted and used statistic in today's game. Bonds only had 90 RBIs because teams refused to pitch to him. He walked 148 times that year. That wasn't the case with Delmon- he just got clutch hits. That's why I think RBIs are a meaningful stat in this particular context. And about his defense, he had 255 chances that year. So about 1.5 per game. He made 239 POs, and had 4 errors. Even if his errors were catastrophic and game-costing, that's four games. But at the plate, he had 96 RBIs in either tie games or when his team was within one run. He had 23 in BBRef's "late and close" situations. Just like I assumed about the errors, let's assume those 23 RBIs are game-saving/winning. His bat more than makes up for his D. I know I'm discounting things in that looking at chances, POs and errors doesn't factor in range but still, I do not think his defense, putrid as it was, negates the value of his bat. Especially at a non-premium defense position.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) Agreed, defense and baserunning should not be factored in when quantifying a player's overall worth. The fact that Delmon Young was a horrific defender should not play a factor. You're also looking at a couple counting stats (one of which does not and should not play a factor) when the guy had 613 PA that year. Was his defense so bad that it totally destroyed the value of a fearsome hitter in the middle of the order? Sorry, I can't agree with that. Especially in a league with a DH. Also, how did Young get 112 RBIs with only 21 HRs? Because he hit .355 with a .911 OPS with runners in scoring position. He was a clutch hitter. So I disagree that my counting stat should simply be disregarded in this case. Point is, 2010 Delmon Young was a valuable player and WAR doesn't credit him for that. So I have a hard time taking it seriously.

QUOTE (Quin @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 09:57 AM) Uh, 1.9 isn't sublevel. Check out Baseball Reference. 8+ is MVP, 5+ is AS, 2+ is starter, 0-2 is "sub".

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 21, 2017 -> 09:23 AM) And just as I was beginning to value WAR...I never will Thanks for saying this. I am with you. Know what Delmon Young's bWAR was in a season where he had 46 doubles and 112 RBIs? 1.9. Sub level, by their own explanation. Yeah, sure, call up that interesting 25 year old from AAA and he should manage this! Easy peasy! What a load of s***.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 06:13 PM) I'm starting to think Rodon isn't very good. He's been extremely mediocre for such a highly touted individual. Guess not everyone can get a rotation spot and dominate like Chris Sale.

I wonder if the Rays are buying. Either Melky or Avi for Jesus Sanchez and one of Lucius Fox/Kevin Padlo/Joe McCarthy... I'd throw in Swarzak to make it two of the trio.

So if you trace the WSN and NYY trades back to their roots, we turned Joe Borchard, Hector Santiago, Gordon Beckham, Dexter Carter, Aaron Poreda, Adam Russell, Clayton Richard, Trayce Thompson and Micah Johnson into Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, Dane Dunning, Blake Rutherford, Ian Clarkin and Tito Polo. I want all of our new assets to succeed, of course, but considering that literally all of our original assets have already failed, it won't take much for these trades to have added to our "talent wealth".

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:55 AM) 2018 team could be sneaky good, especially if the Sox keep Avi (though personally I'd rather trade him). Infield of Narvaez, Abreu, Moncada, Anderson and Delmonico and Yolmer as a utilityman with a kinda patchwork OF of Polo/Leury(probably a FA tbh)/Avi. And there will be midseason reinforcements, Jimenez is closer than his level indicates. A Rodon/Giolito/Lopez rotation is risky, but the upside there is stratospheric. Not to mention the absolute tidal wave of arms they have coming up behind them. I don't think they are going to be terrible for very long, this is an org designed for a quick turnaround that builds on itself with a steady amount of call ups between today (Moncada!) and Opening Day 2020. I'm with you on this. Don't think they'll contend, but I'm confused how some people think we'll have a super high draft pick in 2019. Probably 10-15, I'd guess.

I am the one who voted for the Rutherford trade. With Sale, we traded a high value player for high value prospects. With Eaton, we did that again, and with Q, we did it a third time. But last night, we took three pieces of questionable value and turned them into the game's 30th best prospect. IIRC, Frazier was initially going to bet us Ockimey+, an interesting but relatively untouted 1B. That was probably overblown, so people started talking about Cosart and Ball? Woof. Then, with no real evidence from anywhere, we started thinking Robertson could get us Soto from the Nats. Except the As then traded two guys and only got lesser prospects than that (Neuse and Luzardo). Even in their desperation, the Nats didn't give up a top 100 for two guys. Last, there's Kahnle. What could we have gotten for him? It seems like he's put it altogether, but at the same time, relievers are fickle (see not only Jones, Nate, but also Politte, Cliff). Also, in his last 7 outings dating back to June 25, Kahnle has an ERA of 9.53. In fact, since his first 11.2 IP of the year, his ERA is 3.33. You might say this is a small sample, but he's a 28 year old reliever with 36 good innings. Everything is SSS. So keep in mind, I'm basing my vote on appreciating a return we had no business getting (Rutherford+) over ones that we absolutely deserved (Moncada++, Giolito+, Jimenez+).

1. Moncada 2. Jimenez 3. Kopech 4. Robert 5. Rutherford 6. Lopez 7. Hansen 8. Cease 9. Giolito 10. Collins 11. Dunning 12. Burger 13. Adams 14. Fulmer 15. Sheets 16. Stephens 17. Guerrero 18. Burdi 19. Skoug 20. Adolfo 21. Delmonico 22. Fisher 23. Basabe 24. Zavala 25. L. Gonzalez 26. Flores 27. Clarkin 28. Call 29. Yrizarri 30. Yurchak So happy to omit Michalczewski, May, Alvarez, Peter, and other junk that would have possibly been top 10 two years ago.

So is Rutherford going to Kanny or WS?

Culkin is a typo, I presume?

I remember when people thought Nolan Sanburn was an interesting return for Adam Dunn. And Nestor Molina would have been one of our top prospects. So taking three players of marginal value and turning it into Rutherford+ is a huge win, in my book. We have come a long way, friends.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 12:12 PM) I'm wondering the same...because he hit our scoreboard with his drone? He posts right-wing stuff on Twitter. Watching the bien-pensant White Sox is more important than watching the competitive White Sox for some, apparently. FWIW, nothing in Bauer's career suggests he'd contribute greatly to the competitive White Sox, so he can fight for conservative values from some other team's locker room.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) Also, you'd be insane to say Jon Gray wasn't worth it. There is no one player currently in the White Sox system that I wouldn't trade straight up for Jon Gray, and other than Moncada, Kopech, Jimenez, and Robert, there are no two players together I wouldn't trade for him. He's one of the best young pitchers in the league. I'd be interested to hear the rationale for this one. Jon Gray is a 25 year old with a career ERA of 4.95. His FIP is consistently 3.6 and his K-rate is decent. It's not a Coors thing either, since he's worse on the road for his career than he is at home.

Ockimey is an OBP guy too. 88 walks last year.

For Frazier, I love this.

Eloy 1-2 with a walk.

QUOTE (ventura_abreu @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 06:53 PM) How would anyone rank the 12 players received in the 1st big 3 trades and "special" international signing? For me, the first 4 are easier to rank: Moncada, Jiminez, Roberts, and Kopech. I realize there may even be disagreement with the first 4. The next 8 are more difficult to put into a definite order. Moncada Jimenez Robert Kopech Cease Lopez Giolito Dunning Basabe Diaz Rose Flete Honestly, save for Robert v. Kopech and the exact location for Cease, I don't think this is very controversial. Oh, and I suppose there will be those who insist that Jimenez > Moncada.

Yeah, looks like Malone imploded in 2002 and Honel in 2004...

Good answers, thanks fellas. Also, am I misremembering individual prospects? Particularly, however I followed them, 13 year old me was certain that Kris Honel and Corwin Malone were going to be phenomenal. Of course, that was wrong.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 04:34 PM) The fact that he's the 5th rated prospect in baseball and only at single A should tell you something. White Sox surely could've had someone closer to MLB ready but IMO that can give you a false sense of security, particularly since we don't need someone ready to start next season. Finally, I think the Jeremy Reed comparison is poor in terms of talent comparison and ironically shows how some "MLB ready" prospects can fool you. Ok, the Reed thing makes me wonder, and I want some input from older folks... Back in the day, late 1990s-early 2000s, I was a pre-teen so my actual understanding of prospects was pretty limited, but it seemed like we had a pretty kickass system. Rauch, Reed, Owens, Borchard, Sweeney, Honel, Hummel, Malone, Wells, Fogg, Barcelo...just to name a few. None turned into anything for us, and very few did anything for anyone else. (I admit I may be squeezing together players from different eras too). So, that said, was our farm system ever like this?

Our old friend Micah Johnson is in centerfield for the Gwinnett Braves tonight.