DBAHO

QUOTE(SinkingShip06 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 05:49 PM) lol. silly you comparing a baseball team to the stock market. kenny sure made the right "trade" getting 2 mid level prospects for freddy garcia during a pitching starved offseason. what bullpen depth has been brought in? nothing but negativity from this organization. kenny sounds like a spoiled brat who wants to take his ball and go home. did you not learn from last year with your FUZZY math? get your head outta the sand. this ballclub won the world series with major league pitchers. whether you thought they were good or bad. they were big league ready. not guys brought up from the minors. such a knee jerk reaction from a flash in the pan GM and his penny pinching owner. but we all must realize this was the only outcome that could have occured. it's the history of this franchise. Gio Gonzalez a mid level prospect. Ha. He'd almost be the Sox's #1 prospect right now. What bullpen depth also? Well let's see, trades were made to bring in the likes of MacDougal and Aardsma. Jenks was claimed from the Angels, we picked up Riske for basically nothing and it didn't work out, we traded for Matt Thornton, so KW has been active there I would have thought. And look at the 2 teams that made the World Series this year, and who they had in their rotations and bullpen. Detroit - Justin Verlander, Joel Zumaya St. Louis - Anthony Reyes, Adam Wainwright. So yeah, you can win a world series with guys brought up from the minors, so there goes that argument.

QUOTE(beautox @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 10:48 AM) did that deal just happen? well aparently that happened yesterday, while i was out bowling. 3yrs 16mil Yeah not one of the better contracts from this off-season. But he's old, so he makes sense for Brian Sabean.

Well at least the Royals have a resemblence of a rotation now I guess. Especially if they add Greinke back into the mix.

Couple of blurbs to add;

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:07 PM) Say how did the Mariners get Freddy Garcia again? I'm not trying to say Freddy = RJ in his prime, but teams do give up multiple prospects for one year rentals. Hell the Astros gave up Garcia, Hullien and Halama for 2 months of RJ. Garcia is a lock to net two draft pick as well if he doesn't come back. It seems that with the amount of SP available in the FA market, and also in the trade market with the likes of Harden and Haren possibly being available, teams are willing to give up more at the trade deadline when they want to make a run etc. than at the Winter Meetings. So what I'm saying is that if we held on Garcia, we COULD of maybe gotten more for him at the deadline, but of course a rotation spot doesn't get opened up for B-Mac. And when we traded for Freddy, although he only had half a season left on his deal, we wouldn't have made that trade and give up the type of prospects we did, if we didn't have that agreement that he was going to re-sign with us for another 3 seasons.

I'm going to put the Sox's new direction in a positive frame of mind for a minute; If they can develop good young pitching, and say pay less than $20M for 5 quality starters (say have 3 in their 1st or 2nd seasons at the major league level) and the others are arbitration eligible, that leaves about $100M to help fill the lineup and bullpen. KW and JR have shown that they'll take care of the guys who produce in the lineup. I'm wondering with Jermaine Dye's contract finishing up, if the Sox are going to make it more of a priority to re-sign him over a Mark Buehrle for example? QUOTE(chisoxt @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 10:58 PM) Kenny was always an aggressive GM in pusuing guys to 'put us over the top'. Now, we may be seeing agressiveness in the 'rebuilding' direction. It's funny, for 5 years we've been jealous of the Minnesota Twins, with how they develop their young players. Now it sounds like the Sox kind of want to go in that direction a bit, and people here think it's a horrible way to go. But the Twins have shown you can certainly be successful doing it, you just have to do it right.

Here's a good recap on Gio by John Sickels for a couple of months back;

Honestly I think it's worth giving him a Jose Guillen type of contract. Give him about 2-3M for 2007, incentives that would bring that to 4-5M, and then have say 2 team options for 9M and 10M for the next 2 seasons. If he was signed, and came back and pitched well in say June, it would give the Sox the flexibility to trade a SP at the trade deadline, and a team could really overpay then.

Kenny Williams has found out the value of good young pitching. If he can get a Mike Pelfrey or Eric Hurley / John Danks in some sort of deal for one of our SP's, I would be inclined to do that. You can always sign a SP like Miggy Batista on a short term deal on an inflated salary, to help fill the void until the spects are ready.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:21 PM) Dbaho, who's the person responsible for the quotation in your signature? Wonder if they hold the same opinion now that he's a member of our team again.... Jeckle2000. I really want to get his opinion on this trade right now. My feeling is; If Rowand was included = I LOVE IT!!!! Since he wasn't and Gio was = KW WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING!!!!

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:12 PM) Sure, if all it takes to acquire Baldelli is Gonzalez and Floyd. Or Anderson for Massett and an additional prospect. Do you honesetly believe this would be the case? I don't know in either circumstance after today's debacle. The 2nd deal is probably more likely to occur I would say. If both would happen though, we've upgraded at CF, acquired a couple of pitching spects who could go into the bullpen for a SP and a young CF who's struggled so far at the major league level. Whether that's a win I don't know, but make up your own mind on that one.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:09 PM) I'd rather have Rocco than Upton. Rocco's at least proven he can hit the ball in the majors. If you could acquire Upton for less though, I think it's worth looking into. They're both risky acquisitions, but I still think Upton could be a possible future stud. But then Baldelli could explode power wise in the future as well. So hopefully KW has Andrew Friedman on his speed dial right now.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 04:05 PM) I think that very well could happen and no way would the Rays turn that down, imo. We hold onto Gio who may very well make his major league debut out of our pen this year as we continue to groom him. That or we may be about to resign Buehrle. If the Rays traded Cantu, Iwanura could move to 2nd base with Fields coming in at 3rd base, so it'scertainly possible. But it may not even be Rocco Baldelli we're going after. Has anyone thought of the possibility of acquiring B.JUpton to play in the OF instead? Could he be the leadoff hitter we need?

So if we end up trading Floyd and Gio for Baldelli, how do people feel if it ends up being Garcia for Baldelli? Are they happier than when this original deal went down? And what does that mean for Brian Anderson? Does he get traded to the Rangers for Nick Massett and a SP spect, or to the Marlins possibly for some of their young pitching? Possibilities a plenty.

He's going to get a guaranteed deal from someone in this market. The only way he'd end up here is if we traded another SP. I don't really see that happening ATM.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) Once the Cubs sign Lofton and Floyd, their lineup is going to be very dangerous in the NL. As long as we have Uribe, Pods, and Anderson still in the lineup, my hopes for the offense aren't high. And how many games would Lofton and Floyd actually play for the Cubs?

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:55 PM) Gio did not have a great year last year. Not in the 2nd half of the season anyways. Have a feeling his arm was "tired" though. (Cue the "Uh, Oh posts).

I'm not gonna pass judgement on this trade yet because it's too early. On Floyd, his value is down yes, but KW and Coop have obviously seen something in him. He was a borderline top 10 prospect a couple of seasons back. He has good stuff, and the Sox must think they can fix ALA Matt Thornton. If that happens, it's a real good trade for the Sox, because they could end up with 2 starters who could fixtures in the Sox's rotation for the next decade. And that's IF they keep both of them. My guess is both are traded for Rocco Baldelli, who's available.

QUOTE(Soxpranos @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:45 PM) How does a .262 average in 2006 and a career .279 hitter make this trade go from crap to , "I'm really liking it"? Because then either he or Anderson can be traded for more young pitching (which you could either keep, or use at bait to upgrade somewhere else, like the pen or the OF).

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:40 PM) Oh s***, so we just got Rowand, Gio and Floyd for Garcia? Ok now I'm liking this.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:37 PM) Tampa wanted McCarthy for Rocco, and they're not trading Crawford. Tampa is after young pitching, and Gio is pretty much very similar to B-Mac in terms of overall talent level. Unless they get a better offer from elsewhere for either, I still think something could get done here.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:35 PM) Quick scouting report on Floyd: On a good day, Floyd has a 94 mph fastball and a hard-breaking, 12-to-6 curveball. On a bad day, he tightens up and loses velocity on his fastball and bite on his curveball KW must think that Coop can obvioiusly fix him, and get him back to the level that made him a serious stud prospect about 2 years ago.

So it's basically Gio being substituted for Rowand. I don't really see how this makes a lot of sense UNLESS, these 2 are then flipped to the D-Rays for say Carl Crawford or Rocco Baldelli. It's nice to have Gio back in the organization though for the moment because I rate him highly.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:26 PM) Don't have a damn clue what he is alluding to there. My guess is a deal with the Mets. Right now they're waiting for the Zito negotiations to finish, and if the Mets don't end up with him, or trade with a team like the A's, they come back to the Sox looking for Javy Vazquez. It'll cost ya Milledge, Humber + fringe spect though.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:34 PM) Kenny should be drooling right now... Richie Sexson will be out the door next, for I dunno, Noah Lowry, because he's a SP and he's a lefty, which ticks all of Bavasi's boxes. Good luck to the Mariners winning over 70 games next season.