The Ultimate Champion

I just want to make a move to set the tone & to formally declare we're going to be selling. Doesn't have to be a large one either involving a major piece (Crain, Peavy, Rios, Thornton, DeAza) but maybe you make a smaller deal involving Lindstrom or something, and then formally announce "more trades are coming, we're open for business." If there actually is any team out there willing to give up a substantial return for Peavy, let's get the bidding underway now. If Hahn's late to the party yet again he's going to end up having to keep his players or take garbage back.

You can't look at stats to tell you what a player is doing wrong, you look at approach, mechanics, mindset, etc. and if everything checks out & the player isn't performing then it's just because that player isn't good enough to stick. Bare bones, baseball is a hard game as it is, and at the most elite level in the world it's extremely difficult to play. Add to it the pressure of each situation, the pressure from the fans, organization, whatever.... the demand for results is off the charts, and it's a mental game just as much as it is a physical game. I think people get way to carried away with prospects anyway. Just because the raw physical ability is there doesn't mean he's good enough to play it. In many cases the best thing you can hope for re: a failed prospect/fall-from-glory MLB player ala Ricky Romero is that a change of scenery will destroy whatever negative associations he's making that are preventing him from achieving & will help get his mind right. This game is littered with players who have fallen off cliffs, never turned out, etc. Farmio has said several times on the radio that there is a pass you get, or something like that, which you only get after X amount of MLB service time, and this allows you to get the best seats at available at any MLB game anywhere in the country at any time. I forget the number of these passes handed out, but Farmio has one & he's said before how few of them have been handed out. Baseball is hard.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 1, 2013 -> 06:40 PM) Plus there was another Josh Fields, a pitcher...who came from the Giants, if I remember correctly. EDIT: Oops, missed part of your sentence, but Josh Fields wasn't ever a top-ranked pitching prospect, he might have been 10th on the Top 10 list but he was fringy. I think he was drafgted by the Mariners first, or maybe passed on because he didn't sign... actually I think thats what happened, was a reliever, went and played in the indy leagues like that guy who didnt sign with the Nats... Aaron Crow I think

I wanna stick my wang through the radio & feed it to the WEndys commerical girl IMO

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2013 -> 03:01 PM) If 2011 is any guide...no, Rios cannot play CF adequately any more. I think Rios could play CF well with his head in the game. When his head isn't in the game he can't do anything. That said, he's talked of being more comfortable in RF than CF so since he's so mentally fragile we'll just keep him in RF, and if we trade him to Texas for a bunch of prospects (how close is this deal from happening?) then they can experiment for themselves, and if he gets thrown off and becomes a .208 hitting lazy butcher then so what, we already made the deal, enjoy the contract you guys.

^Also Josh Fields had to sit due to Crede's attempted comeback, although nobody cares now because it was Josh Fields... used to be BTW that when you said Josh Fields there was some immediate uncertainty as to whether you meant the 3B, former Sox prospect, or high-ranked pitching prospect, but bnow when you say it you just say :"he suckled" all at once

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 1, 2013 -> 06:31 PM) What player has had his role changed so many times in 1 1/3rd seasons in Sox history? Name him. With Santiago's control issues, walking Crisp was more questionable than it seemed. Brandon McCarthy as well, spot starter to MR to long man to proven workhorse in the Texas rotation

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 1, 2013 -> 12:27 PM) http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2013/06/01/s...icult-decision/ http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/31/3425...-jurickson.html Talks about how the Chris Davis/Hunter trade for Koji Uehara backfired but was done with the right intentions Peavy, Konerko + Crain for Jurickson Profar + another prospect from the Rangers Trade to be made ONLY if the White Sox are 8-9-10 games out in July. That first deal is the kind of deal we should be targeting, not so much the second. The second deal you do if you really think Profar is a star, but the first deal is a scouting type where you do your homework on a couple players, make some changes, and suddenly two busts/fringe pieces/etc. become key players for your team. I think Crain could net us something nice if we do our homework. Also I don't know why we need to wait until July. We suck now, why wait around for some false hope? Why should we be so confident in this team & so afraid to build around some of these young guys? Crazy. Make the moves, Hahn. Turn off the XBox, open this thread, get some good ideas from us SoxTalkers who are equally qualified to make trades, and get on the phone.

It's 930 am people where the f*** are you guys? Still hung over? GTFO of bed & start posting in this thread, I have more trade ideas in my head brewing that I am going to need to discuss with you people. ANd yes I just said you people.

Also no one has responded re: my awesome Arrieta deal. We need him IMO, or someone like him, as a RHSP Coop project. BattleAxe has been great, but in a 3 lefty rotation you need 2 really good righties, 1 of whom needs to be a #4, and I want my second righty to have a ceiling higher than a #5. So no hard feelings, but now is the time to audition someone with a big arm who can be had for little. Coop is a genius & a miracle worker for talented players in need of a change in scenery. And who else would be out there in a similar mold?

I like the Colvin idea a lot. He sounds like he could come pretty cheaply via trade & he'd allow the Sox to jettison an extra OF, and some PT could come at Dunn's expense. Excellent idea. Dump Wells (he's still on the team right?) for his roster spot, give him Dunn's PA, and if he does well then you can release Dweezy so he has a shot at being a backup on a contender (because we wouldn't need him anyway) which would then open up another spot for a pitcher.... because bad teams need lots of spots available for extra pitchers. Okay, so who do we have to trade to bring Colvin in here? What do the Rockies need? Thornton straight up with the salary eaten, would that work?

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 31, 2013 -> 04:25 PM) Adam Dunn to a NL club, if Adam continues to hit a buck nothing Please let this happen.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 31, 2013 -> 04:23 PM) You must not pay attention to farm systems. I would take this kid as my 2B TODAY over Chris Getz. While Getz has top flight defense, he's really like an absolute floor/worst case scenario for Wong. You can have Getz because he's not hitting against "Jabronis" but I'll take Wong. No, I don't follow prospects anymore. I don't care about rankings, so-called "evaluator" opinions, etc. If I saw the kid you're talking about play then I might like him, but for the most part the prospect people are full of s***/base their opinions on tiny sample sizes or too heavily on stats, and most of the prospects bust out. Gordon Beckham's hype as a spect blew this kid's hype out of the water, and Beckham today, at his floor, sounds like he'll end up a much better player to me, and we already have him.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 31, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) Chris Getz averages 1 HR every 428 at bats and is a lifetime .253 hitter. If you think he's Chris Getz because he is a 2B and plays good D then yes he's Chris Getz. Wong is a former 1st rd pick and top 10 prospect in a good system. Okay so we're comparing what Chris Getz has done as a Major League player facing Major League pitchering to what you/other people thingk this kidn would possibly do based off his numbers against a bunch of jabronis inthe minors, I was talkibng more like Chris Getz as a prospect versus this kid as a prospect. Doesn't sound like anyone I would start over Gordon Beckham. I mean I'd take a useful looking player in a deal but I wouldn't specifically look at 2B where we actually have some depth unless it's someone pretty exciting. But anyway keep em coming, lets get some trades done, this season is boring as it is, time to make some moves.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ May 31, 2013 -> 03:18 PM) He has a very advanced bat. Great defensive 2B. Only average speed but a very good base stealer. If he pans out, I would look at him as like a David DeJesus (KC days) type lead off hitter with great D at 2B. Average: .270-.310, OBP: .320-.360 Maybe 7-17 homers with 20-30 SBs. Keep in mind this would be a ceiling for him. Good thing being, scouts look at him as a high floor guy, and shouldn't be worse than a replacement player. Considering STL's current state at 2nd I don't really see them giving up on him/moving him. Sounds kind of like Chris Getz\, who some here were pretty high on just because he looked like the type of solid mental player with hgood peripherals who wouldn't have much of a downside.

Just to go off my above point here, if there is any way we can trade for a Wang to play 2B, and a SS named Balls or something similar, and maybe a 1B named Mouth so that our DP can be Balls to Wang to Mouth then I think that's a good way to go about settting us up for the future. Also if I was Hahn I'd make as many deals for people with last names that are also slang terms for genitalia & I don't care what level you'd have to drop to in order to get those players, I'd throw a rookie baller out there on the moound if his name was Harry Ballz and then who cares at that point, we might lose 150 games but at least we'd have some fun doing it, better than this crap. JMO\.

I like the idea of waiting until Beckham gets back, seeing what he brings to finish out the year, and then maybe looking to lock him up for several seasons at a decent price. He's been so up and down that I doubt his agent is expecting a big payday at this point, so if we could gain some positional security at a good cost at 2B then I'd like to see us turn our attention to CF, SS, 1B, and RHSP. Also Sanchez, DeMichele, etc. there are some 2B prospects in the system already, so I would much rather go after a SS. I don't know anything about this Wong though, but I'd like it better if he was a Wang or a Dong.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 31, 2013 -> 02:31 PM) I'll credit Rogers for at least starting the conversation that Dunn is the elephant in the room that the Chicago media refuses to address. Dunn needs to hit the road -- and maybe putting public pressure on management will speed the process. It's not enough to make me long for the days of Mariotti. But the kid-gloves treatment of Dunn because he's a nice guy and has handled his 'struggles' so well is silly. How hard can it be to handle the struggles when you're making $14 million a year and everybody keeps telling you to keep your chin up, kid. He can't produce as a major-league hitter any more -- and Ventura still parks him in the clean-up spot. It's 20 miles beyond absurd. That didn't work during the Jerry Owens/Dweezy/Erstad CF days. If we had someone ready who deserved the AB then fine, but Dunn being a black hole isn't hurting our future at all right now. The lack of depth behind him however is. And as far as this season goes, we're just not very good. The sooner we can admit to that & start the heavy lifting the better off we'll be. I mean s***, we're Sox fans, it's not like we're not used to having seasons like this.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ May 31, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) We dont need another starter. Maybe not another lefty starter, but we definitely need more righty starters. Johnson is really all we have as far as RHSP with realistic chances ATM who would profile better than #5 guys. Arrieta is IMO a potential get similar to Floyd when he was with the Philles, #4 overall pick who people thought was going to set the world on fire, and now he's about out of options & supposedly a bust. We've got the greatest pitching coach in the universe to take advantage of.

I will start Dylan Axelrod & Matt Lindstrom to the Orioles for Jake Arrieta & maybe a low level prospect Sell high on Axe, buy low on Arrieta whose value should be way down. Arrieta is a Coop fix 'em project while Lindstrom & Axe help out Baltimore's pitching staff. It's the ultimate overachiever-for-underachiever trade. Who else? Let's make deals that get us players we can run out there that maybe have some upside. Anyone think we can trade Crain who is having a great year for a really talented position player who is out of options/needs playing time? That's a good way to make use of some of Dunn's worthless PA.

We should trade Dunn to the DBacks for proven workhorse Brandon McCarthy, only problem is that given Dunn's low value I don't think we can execute that move without including man-child Juan Silverio.

If you're only going to do it to get Casper Wells playing time then so what. Go get a young MLB-ready player who offers some reason for hope and take Dunn's playing time away then.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 29, 2013 -> 07:48 PM) That's for the FULL season. The 2009 season went into the tank from the time that Rios started playing like 2011/13 Dunn...and we all know Peavy's injury issues and the fact he wasn't ready to pitch when he was acquired. But there was still a lot of excitement early that summer about the team. I'm pretty sure that going into August, the attendance numbers were fairly similar, if not the 2009 pace ahead before all the wheels fell off that team. IIRC 2009 went into the tank when we decided to start the year with Fartolo Colon & 37-year-old Jose Contreras as 2 key members of our starting rotation with the Mark Kotsay DH experiment serving as the cherry on top. Rios was terrible in Toronto which is exactly why we were able to acquire him in the first place. He was a 2010+ piece.