The Ultimate Champion

Actually it would be pretty badass of Hahn to put Crain out there right this second, look to deal him for a nice package early as the best reliever on the market, and then as soon as he's gone when everyone else is thinking about taking on a salary like Papelbon, you throw Reed out there for a really high ceiling MLB-ready position player & see if you can make that deal

We won't be having a fire sale though. If Hahn gets to work then we have: Crain - definitely gone Liindstrom & Thornton - wishy washy, we probably keep 1 of them if not both unless someone offers something meaningful as the Sox will want at least some vet presence in the pen; this would be a nice package deal for a team with a bad pen looking for depth, Lindstrom + Thornton + cash, with Lindstrom having an option after the year could bring back something nice Alexei - Hahn needs to deal this guy now, but I'm not sure he has the sac to do it, maybe he stays too Peavy & Rios - hard to deal these guys without asking for a large return, so there's a good chance they stay even though the rumors will be out there DeAza - ask for a good player back, but I can see him going Paulie - only if he wants to go to a contender, but wouldn't brick back anything Dunn & Keppinger - we'd need to take on salary or give up a piece to make them go away Beckham, Q, Hector, Gillaspie, Viciedo, etc. you really need to get a good young player you are really confident in to move any of these guys; obviously some have higher value than others but you don't give up any of them without getting someone you believe is part of the present & future as well, because each one, worst case, you can plug into the 2014 team Reed - this should be our wildcard, he probably stays, but throw his name out there & look to bring back a haul.... the Sox could realistically trade Crain & Reed for a very large haul combined, dump a salary, and then pay Crain to come back over the offseason & be our closer, essentially we'd be buying prospects

Teams can sometimes win big though when they make deals opposite that & trade smaller names who are in demand at the right time. Eduard Perez returned Asdrubal Cabrera, Ben Broussard brought back Shin Soo Choo, and Casey Blake turned into Carlos Santana all for the Indians alone.

Matt Thornton Aug 31 Cash considerations

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 01:47 PM) Home runs are fun, definitely, but I think Dunn is almost an exception to that rule. He's been so lousy that just seeing him stride to the plate is buzzkill. Am I in the minority on this? I just think Dunn is about the worst player in White Sox history and I hate seeing him walk to the plate. If there are any Dunn fans out there, I stand corrected. If you're somebody's CF/2B/SS/C etc. and you're hitting 7-8 on a team blasting home runs while hitting below .200 then everyone is going to love you because you're helping the team win games. Heck, even as a DH, Dunn hitting at the bottom of the order with some men on in front of him, in a dynamic, well-balanced offense, isn't a problem at all. But here, every negative about his game is accentuated by the overall s***tiness of the entire offense, and the contract keeps him in there. But Dunn really isn't even a problem ATM because every issue should be about a future which he is clearly not a part of.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) Your posts crack me up. What you think, I think, or anyone else thinks on this board literally means nothing. I like talking about possible trades and playing armchair GM as much as anyone, but you bring it to a whole new level. For years KW was the market setter. It is time to try a different strategy. If teams were calling and offering their top tier minor league talent for the likes of Rios, Peavy, Crain, Thornton, Paulie, Dunn, Alexei, etc. there would have been a deal made already. There is no point in making a trade just to make a trade, which you consistently advocate for. Now, I do think Rios, Peavy and Crain should command a very solid return. Hell, James Shields turned into Will Myers, and Shields only had 1 year left of his contract. Whether Shield and Peavy are equivilants is an arguementfor different day, and Peavy getting injured really did hurt, puns aside, but Hahn should still be able to get a pretty hefty return for Jake. It will come, patience young lad. My point is really more about getting value back doesn't necessary mean you're getting players that the fans, baseball writers, etc. give a s*** about. The baseball writers consistently underrate solid MLB contributors & will herald unproven prospects as something special. Case in point: any kid out there with a solid fastball & some kind of secondary pitch is going to be labeled as a future 5th starter. The prospect isn't special at all, and calling him a 5th starter makes the role of an MLB proven 5th starter seem like nothing. But really, it is important, and players who can get several years in doing that can make a s***load of money. On the other side, often times very talented kids with ceilings higher, more like 3's (like Hudson, Q, Santiago, etc.) are also labeled as 5's coming through the minors. So if you're the Sox and it's 2010, and you've just acquired Jose Quintana, Hector Santiago, and Addison Reed for a very good proven player, you've just acquired someone's top prospect who looks like a closer & 2 5th starters. Great, you just traded your excellent player for a reliever & 2 guys you didn't even want. But if you make that move then & look back at it now, guess what? That's one hell of a deal, because you got 3 good young MLB players who are going to be under control & make nothing for a while. Re: the Rays-Royals trade, Wil Myers is unproven. The Rays traded an excellent proven starting pitcher and another MLB player in Davis who really has a world of talent & has the upside of a top-end starter, and in return they got 4 players who hadn't appeared in a Major League game. Even if Myers turns into a good player, that is far from a sure win for the Rays. And if Myers busts? That deal could end uo looking horrific, especially if Shields is extended by KC & Davis plays up to his ability. I definitely don't want all my eggs in one basket. In fact, I'm looking forward to a bunch of deals that look absolutely underwhelming on paper but look pretty good on the field, at least that's what I'm hoping for. We won our only WS in forever with a team full of non-superstars, just some good players, and the only guy on that team who had ever been or ever will be a superstar was hurt most of the year & never saw action in the playoffs. We don't need to try to trade our best players for a package headlined by one "superstar" prospect who probably will have a pretty high bust rate. I mean, if some team is going to take Peavy/Rios and trade us the next Triple Crown winner who happens to be hitting .350 in AAA then there's probably a good reason they're willing to do it, and I hope we have enough good people in attendance watching his games to spot that reason & call shenanigans if we see it. No more Molinas please.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 09:20 AM) The problem is going to be, outside of Rios and Peavy...none of those guys would be expected to bring back an MLB-ready impact bat, and Peavy the answer might be "Maybe" depending on how his health goes at this point. You might be able to get an impact player, but not one who is ready to step in right away for the other guys. Remember...if a player is nearly MLB ready, the team isn't going to give him up without a big return, because the team could make themselves better just by bringing that player up and fitting him into the rotation "somehow" even if he's not at a position of need. Every player we would trade could bring back a very good player, impact player, etc. should we make the right moves. There are all kinds of fallen out of favor/bust types out there who are MLB ready, there are all kinds of prospects who people thought the world of a few months ago/a year ago whatever who have struggled or stalled, etc. The absolute last thing I want to see the Sox do & I've said this time & time again is try to deal off their best players for a couple prospects currently at the peaks of their value. That's the easiest way to come back with nothing. We need to target players who we think we could finish developing, not necessarily quantity over quality but a quantity of potential quality at bargain rates. The Sox need their next Uribe/Alexei/etc. and both of those guys were supposedly nothing special when they were acquired, Alexei being the UT type not good enough to ever start (was starting like 4 months after those comments) and Uribe being IIRC the schizophrenic just doesn't get it type who 1 year after being acquired led the defense to a World Championship. Let's focus more on finding those types and let's not worry about what other teams scouts are saying and so on.

My prediction: Hahn doesn't make a move until at least July 20th, and when he does it'll be something like trading Lindstrom for a UT player prospect who is at least 2 years away.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 07:35 PM) I've seen Olt play a few times at AAA Round Rock this year. Not impressed. Looking at his stats it would be hard to be impressed. .191/.277/.366 and averaging better than 1 K for every 3 PA. I remember some hardcore Angels fans in '07 salivating over our Josh Fields, and some of the questions re: Olt that were out there last offseason (why teams weren't biting on big packages headlined by Olt) made me think he may be another boom or bust Josh Fields type who just simply can't hit a fastball.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 03:51 PM) I just want everyone to remember these 3 posts and the message they should give. Prior & Wood, you just wait until those guys get healthy... MY GOD We shouldn't worry though, we already have Sale & I just got off the phone with my source & he says Scott Ruffcorn's still stuck in traffic, but he's gonna be here soon, you can bet your bottom dollar on that, and we'll have a 1-2 that's even better.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 12:35 PM) Country club atmosphere with no accountability or consequences from top down. Agree. There's no better way of stopping those big iron country club gates from swinging open every morning than firing the assistant supervisor of the gift shop.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 09:13 AM) I want some better players. We need a superstar or 2 in the field. 1 would be nice. Then Robin can get to work. Everything you ever say is right.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 09:31 AM) This is KW's disaster. Rick inherited a awful baseball team. He also inherited Chris Sale & Jake Peavy, his only 2 positive moves outside of the low budget Lindstrom signing & picking up Gillaspie for Soptic. Plus he inherited Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton, Jesse Crain all in the last years of their deals & so far has dealt none of them. He could have sold on other pieces too, like DeAza, what's he done? Nothing. He inherited Rios too, which was a really bad KW move supposedly but if you need some talent you put him on the block. Rios on the block? Doesn't look like it. Hahn is sleeping.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 09:33 AM) I don't get it. Is the joke that he thinks it's cricket? They're just being absurd & mocking pieces of American culture which aren't well understood elsewhere. Same things I'd think watching soccer.

That was great. Wish they'd call the Sox games.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 06:44 AM) I really don't, and I kind of feel bad about it. If we go young next year, I don't want a laid back guy like him in charge. That would be the time to go after Dave Martinez. Just bring up guys and let them play. Seems to work for other teams. I thought one of Robin's strengths was that he could be the general type if he had to. Paulie & Dunn are big influences in this clubhouse it seems. They need to go or else that s*** isn't going to work IMO. BTW I have no problem with Dave Martinez either but is he going to want to sit through a suck fest anyway? It seems like so often a guy will get just 1 crack as a first time manager & if he doesn't pick the right situation then he's forever a bench coach. Is he going to want to be here? And what do we expect him to do when his GM doesn't have his back?

Yes. This is Hahn's disaster. Robin & his staff were brought in to work with young players. Where are the good young players? Sox haven't brought enough pieces in here to work with. Not Robin's fault. Robin's game decisions can be horrible but that shouldn't matter so much right now because we need him more to focus on fundamentals (again, vets f***iung up aren't his fault) and handle a losing clubhouse so that even though they're losing the players still put forth an effort. The vets are dragging this thing down. Hahn Hahn Hahn it's all your fault stop being so damn lazy already.

QUOTE (SpainSOXfan09 @ Jun 16, 2013 -> 07:19 AM) OK, call me bonehead, meathead or whatever you want but here goes: The Cubs farm is getting quite good and with the addition of Bryant at some point they may be top 5-10. If you had a choice of the below top 4 which would you start a package wish list with? Noting that Bryant cannot be traded until a year after he signs? 1. Javier Baez 1. Albert Almora 3. Jorge Soler 4. Chris Bryant What other pieces would you demand back? Would you try and make it a 3 team deal? We would send Sale (As untouchable as it gets) for the right package, why not? I know the Flubs are going to off load some of their one year contracts (Feldman, Baker) and others to get more prospects to either flip or keep growing. I know we just locked up Sale to one of MLB's friendliest contracts but we need good hitting in our system. OK flame away. Yeah let's just trade a young franchise player, one of the best starters in the game and an unquestionable ace, and one who is under control for a long time at a rate well below what he is worth, for a bunch of unproven minor league players who are right now in the minor leagues because they aren't good enough to play at the MLB level, and BTW are only ranked as well as they are because they have the potential to be very good should they hit all their benchmarks at all the right ages & never get seriously hurt & also should they be able to adjust to MLB play within their first seasons so that they aren't automatic busts. I don't know a damn thing about the Cubs minor league system other than that it is full of players who aren't good enoughg right now to usurp the garbage they are running out there. And I'd be very comfortable saying that no one in their system right now ever becomes a better player than Chris Sale. Why? Because they are rare. Superstar MLB players are rare, so rare we haven't even had one since Hurt. Prospects with superstar ceilings however are not.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 15, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) You've been proven right? Gtfo. He's been the best SS in the AL for years and he's still among the best. That's like saying you predicted PK would be a s***ty hitter and you think you've been right because he sucks this year. That was such a stupid post that its kind of blowing my mind. Lots of players are called brain dead. Most of them are short stops. You know why? They have a lot more to think about than any other player on the field. They have to make more snap judgements. Sometimes they make stupid plays. There's no doubt that he's kind of a dumb baseball player, but he's more than earned his salary throughout his career. Alexei is very much a "flow" kind of player, Uribe was the same way. Put him with a 2B he likes to work with & on a team that believes it's going places & the focus is there. Put him in the middle of a garbage fest next to Tyler Greene & all that goes through his head are reruns of Fidel's Cuban commie ripoff version of Famikly Matters, where instead of Urkel it's Urubiel or something, and his suspenders are made of banana leaves. Every bit as quirky though,. ALEXei frogerts to make the plas then.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 15, 2013 -> 02:46 AM) I hate when I have to be the voice of reason aka the smartest person on the board. To the mods, did steve share with you naked pics of his so called hot wife? How is this clown able to get away with calling Balta (who I just about never agree with but respect as a poster) a f***ing idiot and not get suspended? He did it to me but I let it go because he's just so lame to me (my sources said Rose is playing tonight!). He's like the k-mart version of Brandofan yet I get more s*** for saying Kobe is a better binge scorer (he is) than Michael Jordan was. Felix and qwerty, the two smartest people to ever live, told me what a f***ing dumbass he was. But I see it now. If this moron is able to call people names, mock them, etc, then I will be forced to unleash my fury (I've held back for a while now) on all of PHT. Thank you for you time. You should just unleash your fury anyway, it's not like there's much else to talk about this year baseball wise. IIRC one of the longest threads here in the last few months was Marty34's gem "Among Other Things I'm Not A Racist." And what an event that was. For one I stayed out, made me feel a bit uncomfortable.

What are you people talking about? I'm the smartest guy here & I post all the time!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2013 -> 07:07 PM) Sure. And I get to be Kenny Williams and veto it. lol I was looking for it I got it Just underneath it

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2013 -> 06:51 PM) Maybe we should start benching posters for terrible posting. Can I be the one to decide who's terrible?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 14, 2013 -> 04:29 PM) I only applied that label to ONE person. However, you make it two, SOXTALK MEATHEAD. I'm cool with that so long as the mods change the slogan under you name from "development arrested" to "beating the meathead" because then you'd be SoxTalk's official meathead beater & any meat you beat would be tenderized for a purpose far greater than the temporary satisfaction gained simply by saying "Conor Gillaspie sucks."

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 14, 2013 -> 07:06 AM) LOL. It's not like this is Tyler Flower's first cup of coffee. I'm more than happy to be patient with prospects that have promise. These turds the White Sox are serving us are not prospects. Tyler Flowers is 27 years old, and even when he magically makes contact he is still pitiful behind home plate. I was one of the few who adamantly stuck by Reed last season. I sucked Beckham's dong for years. I put Jose Quintana in a Superman cape for f***'s sake. Please tell me one worthwhile "prospect" I've poo poo'd. You can't. You just happily lap up the s*** the White Sox put in front of you. You mindlessly waste your time on a guy like Flowers or Gillespie while the franchise goes down the s***ter and act like that makes you a good fan. I'd say that makes you part of the problem. Gillaspie's game is much closer to being MLB sustainable than Flowers' is. They are two completely different types of players, so c'mon Steve, leave Connor out of this, okay? Historically, re: the catching position, the Sox have learned a lot of hard lessons about trying to develop young players into that role. Furthermore, the organizational strength is pitching. It makes sense for the Sox to get a vet after this season either through FA or in trade, so let's just wait and see what they do. Yes this team sucks, and it hurts, and so I think we all need to be able to lean on each other, stop fighting & start listening more, be supportive of each other, etc. because there's still a lot of miserable games left & lots of crying, anger and confusuion likely ahead.