The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) I think to some extent you can, but you have to play it from the stereotypical girl's perspective rather than the guy's. Be a little slutty, feel the guys' offers, tease a few different guys and then go home with the one that has the biggest package. The guy is going to tell everyone at the bar that he wants to get laid and he is going to go up to all the girls and get no response and then, by the end, he is going to get one desperate, lonely girl to take him home and they'll have sloppy, quick sex and then he'll leave her house the next morning in shame and full of regret. If Rick Hahn doesn't get to work he'll be sitting there with a fleshlight.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 02:32 PM) For what it's worth, most likely everyone is going to be disappointed...just because hopes are so high we actually bring in a tremendous infusion of new talent. Part of its the sheer level of frustration with the starting line-up we're sending out there everyday and how many mistakes they're making on a daily basis. We haven't really done something of this scale since 1997. Would be interested to hear the tone Reinsdorf would take were he to be interviewed after last night's game...and Hahn, other than a couple of cliched responses, he hasn't been nearly as "informative" or outspoken as KW, so we should never make the mistake of assuming nothing's going on simply because he's more circumspect with the media and national beat writers. Even if KW wasn't saying something, he was saying SOMETHING if you interpreted the tea leaves. Hard to be patient to wait for Hawkins and Anderson for another 2 1/2-3-4 years. IIRC when JR greenlighted the Peavy deal he said he was walking around Madison Ave. or something & felt rich, so he told KW to do it. JR needs to prentend he's on MLK at 2am when he's getting phone calls from HAhn, get the f*** out of here before I get beat to death.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 02:26 PM) Your idea is the MLB equal of going into the bar and screaming "So which if you b****es am I going to be banging tonight." You don't declare yourself sellers. It reeks of desperation and you aren't going to maximize your return because everyone is going to wait you out. lol that's a pretty good idea. I think that would probably work if you're in the right place & you have enough bling. Bar trash isn't hard to impress as it is. Every team in the league knows we're desperate for young talent as it is. All they have to do is look at our organization. There are a couple players though that aren't getting the QO and are probably gone no matter what, and everyone out there knows it. I'm just saying, face the music. It's like Hahn should look in the mirror and say "We're not good enough, we're not smart enough, and doggonnit, nobody likes us" and then pick up the phone & let everyone know. Kind of like KW in August that year when he made it clear he was trading pieces after a bad game, and Contreras went to COL & Thome to LAD in the same night. Or like the time KW flipped over a table after Rauch went out to dinner with his parents. Hahn needs to flip the b**** switch. Does he have the b**** switch? We will find oit. I don't think so. Should have hired that Kim Ng chick, she probably has a b**** switch.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 02:15 PM) Well, the White Sox have plenty of resources, supposedly, so it's not like they HAVE to do anything. That gives them lots of leverage, in and of itself. And they're not dealing with situations like Middlebrooks/Youkilis or Thome/Howard, where there's an obviously superior prospect being blocked by a popular, highly-paid veteran. I do think that Crain has been SO GOOD, so far, that it's likely (just from a statistical perspective) that his performance has nowhere to go but down, and that will clip some value...along with having him for fewer games left this season the longer teams wait. It always goes both ways. We wouldn't be completely shocked if Crain was to go in June. The rest of the players, July is much more likely. They do HAVE to do something, sell. I'm all freaked out that Hahn is going to botch the deadline. f***. Hey caulfield you wanna do some coke? I'm all freaked out f***.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) I know you want this to happen now now now but it's going to wait until after the All-Star Break. No one is going to give up anything significantly more for Jesse Crain now than they will on July 16th or July 26th. Same goes for Thornton and Rios and they will actually give up less for Peavy, if that's indeed the route they go. Seriously, it's this simple 1a.) Start shopping players now 1b.) Send scouts out 1c.) Let guys play 2a.) Get reports on said scouted players 2b.) Let guys play 3a.) Start collecting and countering offers. 3b.) Let guys play 4a.) Progress in trade talks to the point of finalizing deals 4b.) Let guys play 5.) Make trades Jesse Crain has been one of the best relievers in the MLB this year and teams will be willing to wait to get him. If the Sox remain out of the race, they will deal him shortly after the All-Star Break. People need to seriously relax. This s*** isn't going to happen overnight, and they are going to take their time making these sorts of decisions. EDIT: You are right in that you don't want to wait until the deadline itself. Teams will lowball and keep moving on at that point. You want him and really any other players dealt by July 30th (or, at the very least, in deep negotiations). Hey, you're right, and I agree with what you are saying. My problem is that I don't think we've let the other 29 teams know that we've decided to sell. I think that if we put had it out there that we were definitely selling, there would be tons of stuff out there in the media by now. Everything I've seen on MLBTR that talks the Sox goes along the lines of "IF they sell, IF they decide they are out of contention, etc." and that's not good enough. Now that the draft is done, no contender should be bashful about calling the Sox on any player outside of Sale. Q would take a haul, Peavy, Rios, Viciedo would take a haul, but everyone but Sale should be out there & Thornton and Crain have to go no matter what, without question. Alexei should be next on the list after those guys.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 12:37 PM) I'm f***ing sick to death of people here demanding we trade everyone for prospects and then simultaneously giving those prospects exactly 1.5 weeks to be successful before they are declared to be sucky, bad, awful, and needing of replacement. THIS IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN WHEN YOU BRING YOUNG PLAYERS ALONG. This. Tyler earned his shot at a big league starting job in 2013. The Sox made the decision to go with him, and so now you play him. The Sox don't need to do anything other than sit back, relax, strap it down. Tyler is going to play himself into the future or out the league this year on his own. If it's August and the waiver period is nearing it's end, and you're about to expand your rosters to up to 40, then if Flowers has answered your question and shown he's done you turn the page. And Josh Phegley IMO isn't turning page, that's starting a new paragraph on the same page as before. Get in a solution, probably a vet, because catching is hard & I'd much rather let other teams develop my catcher for me, and sign him to a FA deal knowing what he is, who he is, and that he can handle our staff.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 12:43 PM) There's zero reason for the Sox to do that either this year or next. At worst he's a sunk cost. If someone's willing to take on $15 million out of what remains on his deal, or give the Sox something back that's useful long term if the Sox pick up even more money...then you can talk. Dunn for Smoak straight up, Mariners pick up $1M this year and $2M next year with the Sox paying the difference. Would you do it? I would. They'd at least have someone to plug in to take a shot on. As it is, there are 2 moves to make re: Dunn, either you get a team like the Dodgers (and maybe only them) to take on his salary in exchange for a good player, saving them from having to trade anyone of value, or you dump Dunn and eat his deal yourself. You only do #2 though if you have someone to plug in who is worth playing. Dumping Dunn for ex. and plugging in Casper Wells does nothing, and you actually get worse offensively.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 12, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) I have no idea why you would trade anyone now. Are teams in contention more likely to overpay the closer you get to the deadline? No, they are more likely to give up more at an earlier date in order to obtain a rental for a longer period. Waiting until later allows more time for other teams to unload their players & get something while teams like the Sox dick around & end up with 2 teams in on the likes of Crain on July 29th rather than 10 teams in on him now. Also if you know you're definitely selling (and unless the Sox are brain dead they already know that) then there are likely to be more teams thinking they have a shot at the wildcard spot now than at the end of July. The Sox have no problem buying in June, and they should have no problem selling in June. Hahn needs to get on the ball already.

Draft's over, no more excuses. 29 other teams need to know today that we're selling and that we're taking offers & dispatching scouts now. No more bulls***, you lost the offseason, you piddled around, now get busy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 11, 2013 -> 07:25 PM) Of course, there's a different between AAAA prospects/suspects and REAL/legitimate prospects. Talent. I'd say it's aptitude. You can't see it, you can only guess at it. The physical ability is the only thing you can really quantify, so you see how much is there & then try to take into account stuff like character, attitude, coachibility, etc. But there's no sure formula as players with little in the way of natural ability succeed, guys with worlds of ability don't, good kids don't learn even though they listen, complete assholes who refuse to listen to anyone still can make it through on their own every once in a while, etc. Re: Septimo you see there's the arm so you take a shot, because good lefty specialists are nice to have & because he costs really nothing, and at this point he doesn't even cost a 40-man roster spot. The talent is there, the aptitude, who knows, but as a converted position player you'd expect him to take some time and not just set the world on fire out of nowhere like Sergio Santos did. IMO there is a middle ground between "all-star" and "f*** this guy" and I think Septimo has the potential to settle in that middle nicely at some point.

IIRC Keith Law said Mitchell may have been the best athlete in the draft when we took him. Who gives a s*** if he liked him at any point? Maybe Bell's remarks were a way of challenging him. I'm not sure it's Bell's fault he's a bust. The biggest knock on Bell I can think of is probably the ridiculous Teahen trade & immediate extension. Yes Kenny made that move, but like the Molina deal with the Paddy recommendation, I think that was probably Bell pushing it. You don't trade for a non-tender candidate & then extend him under normal circumstances. I admittedly don't have any real reason to back Bell or demand he stay, but I don't have any reason to want him gone either. What has he done so wrong that someone else wouldn't have done? What kind of results have you guys been expecting? IMO it's very unfair to judge anyone re: our farm for a few years, since the new CBA & recommitment to LA is going to make more of a difference in the long run than any personnel hire. I mean it's not like Buddy Bell was setting budgets or trying to keep the Sox out of LA.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ May 30, 2013 -> 07:59 PM) I personally love it when relievers throw an easy 95 MPH. I mean, let's ignore the fact that since joining the organization his BB/9IP is above 5. This isn't something recent either. He's struggled with control his entire career and there is nothing to suggest he's improved upon it at all. Wasn't he a converted position player? I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to give him the opportunity. If he can learn to throw strikes he can help us.

Most untapped potential is Brazil, not even close. Crazy athletes come out of that country all the time. The problem is IIRC they don't give 2 s***s about baseball over there.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 11, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) Let's stop worrying about the attendance, please. hahahahhahahaha hahahhaha hahahahhahahaha hahaha hah ahaha aha h aha hahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah ha ]h hahhahahahhaahha this is soxtalk fior f***s sake hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahhahahahhahah

Just voted for him like Scotty Pods in '05 f*** yeah

If you think Danks has a shot at returning to even close to full strength then you keep him & you get back good players because good LHSP is extremely valuable around the league. Also I don't see what would be the difference between taking on such a miserable contract as Carl Crawford, or eating an enormous amount of Ethier's deal, and taking on Dunn's deal to pick up some good players & then dumping him. Anyone thinking we can trade Crain and Alexei and get back players who will immediately begin to perform at a level similar to, or exceeding, the massive amounts of cash we'd dump in such a deal IMO isn't being even close to realistic. It's nice to hope for, but unrealistic. In fact, here's a fangraphs article written a month ago http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/gimme-some-dee-gordon/ saying Dee Gordon should be the Dodgers SS of the future & lead-off man pushing Hanley to 3B. I'm not sure why he's any worse than Joe Schmoe the other unproven SS who everyone loves right now & will swear sucks a fat one 2 months from now. If you can dump cash then you can trade off a more valuable piece like Reed for some prospects, then take those prospects & send them out for a pre-arb MLB player or an MLB vet on a team-friendly deal. With the cash savings you look to sign a couple value free agents with real baseball skills, more like the Dye deal when we got him, or picking up AJ, and you shy away from buying players at the peaks of their value, ala Dunn & Keppinger. BTW all anyone has to do is look at the first page of this forum to see the consensus opinion of Flowers 6 months ago vs. now, or the consensus opinion of Beckham a few years ago vs. now and you see right away just how difficult it is to build with prospects. Don't get me wrong, we need some, but payroll space for proven players and deals for proven players on nice contracts supplemented by a young core which in our case is pretty well established IMO is a much better way to go abotu planning for the future. And besides, the Dodgers would probably laugh at that deal & tell us to f*** off if we proposed it.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 10, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) This is a terrible idea. We're getting no value out of Crain/Alexei. Yeah, if you completely gloss over the $23.5M owed to both Keppinger & Dunn from 2014 on. In fact if the Sox could do a deal like that without taking back Uribe, maybe taking back Hairston ($3.75M) instead, they would dump about $60M there. I know you love prospects but if you trade Alexei & Crain for prospects & then have to rely on them then you're probably up s*** creek. Take advantage of the Dodgers free-spending ways if you can. I want a get out of jail free card too.

And actually if I'm Hahn I'm doing whatever I can do to make a deal with the Dodgers trying to get even more cash off the books. They could really use Alexei, they could really use another righty reliever, a 3rd baseman, starting pitching, quite a bit actually and we have pieces they would be interested in. We make a deal with them & we might be able to clear out some major payroll room. I'd be interested in Ellis from their side but I don't think they'd want to deal him, and that's fine, the payroll space would be the main idea.

The Dodgers like to make Playstation trades anyway, so forget Ethier because we don't want him anyway. Alexei + Crain + Keppinger + Dunn for Dee Gordon + Juan Uribe Uribe's in the last year of his deal & would replace Keppinger's bad contract, he'd be our UT guy again and clubhouse guy until someone offered to take on part of his remaining deal. Gordon gets plugged in now & we see what he has, so basically Alexei and Crain buy out Dunn's deal and all the money we owe to Keppinger. The Sox get more payroll room and can now start shopping Reed heavily in search of a starting position player. For the Dodgers, Crain is League insurance and bullpen depth, Alexei makes them a s***load better, Keppinger is their UT guy, and they just release Dunn simply because it is easier to take on a player's contract & eat the money, and I doubt MLB offices would approve LA sending us $25M or whatever it is that would be left on Dunn's deal. For the Dodgers their chances go way up & they really give up nothing.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 07:42 PM) There is definitely a handful or two that do. Rogers just falls in love with people for reasons I don't understand. He also has a distinguished and remarkable track record of being wrong on said players. Most people here do, and it's because most people here can watch a game & know what it is they are watching. The reason Rogers falls in love with players IMO is because he is incapable of forming his own opinion based on what he's looking at. As far as I know, he asks around about some players, gets some responses, and then prints it. And that BTW is why I don't trust most of these prospect guys out there, they have very little to go on whether it is positive or negative, and so they largely just print other people's opinions without forming their own solid one based on what they have seen. And with the Wilder stuff you see right away the potential downside of that, with Rogers basically acting as the mouthpiece for a guy who was f***ing over an organization. I would always trust what someone here (like JPN for instance) has to say about a player he has actually seen several times in the minor leagues vs. the typical "I've been hearing..." or "scouts are saying.." etc. junk you get from the gurus. There are waaaaaay too many minor league players in each of the 30 organizations to follow, and factoring in the new draftees, the next draft class, the international players, the graduated players, etc. there's just too many players out there to get a read on. And again, what makes Phil specifically so special is that not only can he not tell the difference between a mediocre or worse prospect trumpeted as a man-child and a genuine player, but neither can he tell the difference between a proven workhorse MLB starter and a long reliever with a handful of MLB starts across parts of two seasons. None of us (as far as I know) are paid to watch and evaluate players, speak to a large audience on the topic of baseball, etc. but I would not doubt that for most of the posters on this site, if properly motivated & having been given the same career opportunity Phil Rogers has, would do a far, far superior job. And I know this day in the internet age it's en vogue to declare someone like Rogers, Cowley, etc. garbage and proclaim that so-and-so the internet fan blogger would do that job much better, but really, you read any of these baseball blogs and most of their writers are smarter, more thorough, and much more knowledgeable about the game of baseball. There is evidence everywhere that Rogers is the Adam Dunn of baseball, i.e. he's there on a contract, you have to pay him, but please god make him go away soon.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) If the judge really knew the actual salaries for MLB scouts (especially in Latin America) as well as minor league coaching staff, they might not exactly call it a "dream" scenario. That's part of the reason those individuals got involved in the skimming in the first place. At any rate, wasn't it Paulo Orlando or Anderson Gomes who were the two Brazilian players who all of a sudden started netting more attention from Phil Rogers in his columns at that time...as well as Juan Silverio? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Andre Rienzo. Yeah Gomes & Orlando were supposed to be legit, at least according to the Sox scammers. It's funny how the only meaningful info Rogers seems to have ever gotten from this org came from criminals looking to sell their scams to the public. I don't know if you remember (or if you were there at the time) but Rogers used to post on WSI before the mods ran him off I think by repeatedly calling him out on his bulls***. They did the same to Cowley there. Not sure if he ever posted here but I'm sure he'd get his ass torn if he did, what a damn moron.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 11:54 AM) Guys, arnie Munoz is gonna be a stud. Just wait for that curve. Over Christmas on WGN they aired the lost episodes of the Bozo show, and I don't know if anyone else saw that, but there was a skit in there which was so long & painful that it actually reminded me of Arnie Munoz vs. the Expos. Because of your post I've now had to remember that game twice this year. Ugh. I was hoping that would be forgotten for good.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 11:16 AM) Octavio Rodriguez ‏@tavs27 16h I want to thank the @whitesox for giving me the opportunity of a lifetime, honored to have been drafted by such a prestigious organization Then put your mouth where the money is & sign.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 10:47 AM) Flipping over Egyptian buffet tables and calling everyone b****es The good thing about cursing in ancient hieroglyphics is nobody understands what you're saying, unless of course you happen to be cursing in front of Zahi Hawass himself in which case he'll completely misinterpret what you're saying & if you mention anything about the Reptilian race he'll just gloss over it like a moron.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2013 -> 09:13 AM) Kenny was vetoing all of the picks so it didn't change at all... He was doing it from Egypt also