The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 5, 2013 -> 10:32 AM) Yeah, he's kinda the right-handed version of the Matt Thornton we originally acquired. That said, who cares - just a pen arm. Do you realize what you just said?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 5, 2013 -> 10:38 AM) Ughhhhhhhhhbbbbbgggghhhhhgggghhh lol Dunn is like an arctic flower, so stunning for a week or so when in full bloom, then comes the winter chill & all we see is darkness for another 11 months. Now if we could just breeze through the rest of his Sox career in a 30-second piece narrated by David Attenborough then all would be golden.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 4, 2013 -> 02:46 PM) Do you really think he hasn't been on the phone daily? That is what GM's do. Little bit early to get good value on players though. Not really, no. Other teams can't keep secrets the way the Sox do. If Hahn was being as aggressive as he should be right now then we'd already have about 400 Peavy-to-whoever articles coming out in local papers in contending cities around the country. And Ken Rosenthal would definitely have something. Sox FO headquarters: Rick Hahn: Making an impact:

Also if we get this guy & he doesn't work out we can flip him for Juan Francisco who is a 3B & is also a baseball player

ChiSox59 answered my question. Yes, that was a damn good post. Make some more of them please. You're batting 1.000.

DFA'd doesn't mean he's hit waivers, right? We should be able to put a deal together for this guy, and I'm definitely on board. We need players with upside we can run out there this year.

Kenny Williams should yell at Hahn the way people want Ventura yelling at players. Somehow though I doubt Kenny has had a thing to do with baseball since he took his "promotion," I bet he's just been laying around on the beach, smoking cigars, drinking fine scotch, chasing tuna, etc. Hahn needs to get on the phone and let people know we're taking offers on just about everyone aside from Sale. You're only supposed to be under the radar when you're buying, not when you're selling. And please no one bring up Sergio as selling under the radar, that was like one time & all is forgiven.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) Even with our long losing streak, we STILL have a better record than they do. Except they're actually trying to do this.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) How so? I don't remember Freddy having a no trade clause that he only waved for the White Sox because of Ozzie. Freddy is the husband of Ozzie's cousin, or something like that. Freddy knew the Sox wanted him, Freddy wanted to be here, the Sox knew it, and it was decided that should the trade come to fruition it was extremely likely that Freddy would sign an extension with us. We were dealing with family basically. It's hard to imagine the Sox surrendering a package that large for a rent-a-player, and it's hard to imagine a SP with Freddy's stuff (at the time) taking a discount and foregoing a huge FA payday under other circumstances.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 11:46 AM) I expect a coach to be fired soon if things don't turn around. I'd like to see some roster moves, but what would said moves consist of? Trades, demotions, DFAs? I really doubt they'll undermine Robin. Or at least they shouldn't. When Robin was hired they told us that he was going to take some time, maybe a couple years, 3 years, whatever, to come into his own. And that would be fine, because we'd be retooling/reloading whatever you want to call it. But since hiring Robin we've signed veteran players to MLB contracts & traded prospects for veterans. So we say one damn thing and do another. If this coaching staff is here develop players then let's bring in some players to develop. Calling out anonymous players and then demoting Tyler Greene solves nothing, and it's hard to blame the coaching staff for not coaching up a contender when the FO made it very clear that that wasn't the goal, and when the FO hasn't done a damn thing to make this team into a contender. I want Hahn to make a move soon, finally, because ATM it seems like there's no plan around here.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 12:17 PM) Eventually we will, but the decisions made before the 2011 season are still hurting us right now. Agree, but I'd still argue that the Wilder fiasco and the way of spending under the old CBA are hurting us far, far more than any player currently under contract to this team, especially Dunn who if nothing else has answered a question through his play and shown us that we need a DH. We don't have anyone to call up to fill a major hole on the position side, but neither do we really have any prospects to trade for MLB players in the arb or pre-arb stage to fill those holes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 12:04 PM) JR never really made a call to fire either of them, honestly. The writing was on the wall, but Guillen had already left of his own accord to sign a rich contract that he was negotiating while still managing the White Sox. He chose Kenny. During that whole period where Ozzie was demanding a contract extension they had a meeting IIRC, and the Ozzie deal was done at that point, just on delay until the end of the season. Ozzie wanted to stay but only if Kenny was gone, and JR chose KW by not giving Ozzie his extension and granting all his wishes. But I do agree with your main point though, JR waffled on that way too long, and just kind of sat around and waited for someone else to make the decision for him. JR I think is a good owner, not bashing him, but that wasn't good ownership on his part, nor good management in general. He should have went with Kenny or neither, but the Ozzie decision was easy as pie and yet he couldn't make it.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 12:00 PM) I also think we need to be fair to JR because he was basically dealing with his two sons of the White Sox, KW and OG. I can't imagine how difficult that was for him. He probably sided with Ozzie's ideas because he ultimately thought KW to be the smarter and more valuable of the two moving forward. Maybe he realized Ozzie was poison and the "nicest way" of dismissing him, without stepping on his huge fragile ego, was to let him self-destruct. All speculation obviously. What really sucks is that if players like Tank, Flowers, Dunn and Beckham were half as good as KW projected we'd be a powerhouse. Agree with this. JR is constantly referred to as such a great & loyal owner over and over, but the downside of that is falling in love with personnel who aren't doing their jobs. He doesn't want to can someone he'd consider a personal friend if it isn't absolutely necessary, and I'm sure the KW-Ozzie squabbles were hard on him, he's not a bad guy, but in the end yuou need to be able to make those tough decisions, and you need to make them on time. JR made the right call but far too late4.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 11:52 AM) You mean fully rely on Don Cooper to manage the pitching staff. Ozzie delegated well in the early seasons. Right. He let Coop do his thing. Ozzie challenged the starters (what he did with Garland specifically is one of the biggest reasons we won all those games that year & took a WS) and he did pretty well with what was given to him re: the bullpen. Then he apparently decided he was an elite manager in baseball, and you could tell it kind of with reverse psychology, how Ozzie in interviews would always name Tony LaRussa & Bobby Cox over and over and talk about how he wasn't at that level but that was where he aspired to be - and I think the goal there was to make you put Ozzie in that conversation. But Ozzie was a one-hit wonder, whose great knowledge of the game in the end paled in comparison to his greater lack of self control.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 11:21 AM) Ok, but Guillen is the biggest reason Freddy Garcia was traded to the Sox. Win some, lose some, but w/o Garcia no WS. Right, and that was before Ozzie's ego grew to the point where it swallowed everything around him. Ozzie's 2 things he could do well that actually had to do with the game of baseball and not media relationships were manage a pitching staff & get the clubhouse to play for him. He lost the entire team & decided to make an enemy of one of (if not the) best pitching coaches in baseball. Ozzie went down the tank on his own, and JR very stupidly tried to save him when he was a lost cause. Who else can have his bastard little b**** son time after time go on social media & bury players, the organization, drafting philosophy of not taking your s***ty brother early enough, etc. without repercussions? Ozzie was a useful person who turned into a massive mistake, in large part due to the Reinsdorf loyalty leash. Anyone blaming KW for not making moves he couldn't get the power to make isn't lbeing fair. If Reinsdorf decides some idiot in the FO somewhere (who we maybe don't even know about) is too black & white at heart to lose his job then Rick Hahn, whether you like him or not, is also going to have to work around his presence.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 3, 2013 -> 07:42 AM) KW gets blame for the Dunn signing, because he let Ozzie run the asylum. There was zero reason that Mark Kotsay should have been an everyday player, yet KW let Ozzie make the decision. In turn, the Sox didn't keep Thome, who killed them in Minnesota, and they panicked in need for a slugging lefty in the middle of the order and signed Dunn. I think history has proven at this point that JR was stepping in and giving Ozzie power directly to try and resolve that situation. Kenny acquired Pierre for zero reason, put Kotsay in as the DH, and completely stepped away from the picture and let Ozzie answer the media's Thome questions. JR should have let Kenny fire Ozzie when he wanted to, he should have let Kenny construct the lineup he wanted to, basically he should have let Kenny do the job he hired him to do. JR authorized the future bad contracts & he stopped his GM from being a GM. What do you do? This organization has been run idiotically at multiple levels for a long time, however, we did at one time have an excellent GM who, if not for such extreme personal loyalty, could go to another less idiotic organization and prove his worth yet again.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Jun 1, 2013 -> 06:08 AM) Sometimes those are the types that turn into good players, no hype and all of the sudden something clicks. I think he sould be hitting in the 2 hole right now Most of the time, when a position player is drafted, the physical tools & skillset that has people thinking he is a world-beater carries through all the way to the Major Leagues. The only differences are meaningless "projections" people attach to those tools/skillset packages which are (at draft time) so often perfect world scenarios. Maybe the power doesn't come the way someone "projected" or maybe he can't cut his swing down as much as someone "projected" but the difference between a top prospect at a young age in the low minors & a "disappointment" of an MLB player who is garnering time on the field is the actual ability to play baseball at the highest level possible, and a substantial progression has had to occur for that to happen. Gillaspie has, actually, developed, not fallen off or busted out, and the fact that he is here & proving he deserves the playing time is an awesome happening for an organization which going into Spring was counting on some combo of a healthy Brent Morel and a veteran UT player as a 2-3 year "solution" to the 3rd base problem.

How about we evaluate our team based on what we're doing, not what the Tigers are doing. Hahn sounds like he's floating more bulls***. Changes? Yeah right. I'll believe it when I see it.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 07:32 PM) Anybody think Thomas could be a good hitting coach? In terms of knowledge, yes, but in terms of personality, who knows? The laissez-faire/Paul Konerko clubhouse attitude hopefully will run its course pretty soon. Where's the fire? Where's the passion? Serious, too. Big Frank has fire, passion, will to win, skills, attitude, balls, talent, charisma, charm, etc. Let him come in & if his personaliuty doesn't fit the players then can the players, you probably won't miss them anyway.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 03:14 PM) Andy Gonzalez wasn't dramatically overpaid though. True. But still, it's not like Dunn's blocking anyone we know about, although it is possible that his contract is blocking us from taking on the contract of another veteran player who would come at a fair price should we be in position to absorb the cash.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 06:26 PM) Oh I don't know. There were fans who didn't agree with the signing. Isn't he usually the type of guy Kenny likes to get? No versatility on the bases and the field. I guess NL stats don't automatically convert to AL stats. I think there was one fan here who famously didn't like the move. Almost all of us really liked it because we were in what we thought was a legitimate playoff window & Dunn's track record spoke for itself. We needed that lefty middle of the order bat and we signed what we thought was a lefty middle of the order bat. None of us were wrong for thinking what we thought at the time, nor was Kenny/the organization in the wrong for making the deal, nor was Dunn not worth the money & years at the time. Good move on paper, absolutely horrific results. Dollar for dollar, all-around game considered, lack of insurance money back, etc. his was the worst Sox contract since....? Can't remember. Just horrible, but that's life sometimes.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) Robin = SOXTALK MEATHEAD

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 10:45 AM) Team is bad. Dunn is one of 7-9 serious problems. This, and long-term, Dunn isn't even hurting us. He's a sunk cost who is playing because we don't have anyone worthwhile to throw out there in place of him. Blaming Dunn is like the people who blamed Andy Gonzalez for 2007. He's garbage, but his contract is up pretty soon & it's not like he's taking PT away from someone who deserves to be out there. Finish the job. We have the core, now finish building around it. This insistence on sticking with a group of players that clearly aren't good enough isn't helping. Tear this s*** up already.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) Was this post made 'tongue in cheek?' Mccarthy a work horse? Maybe, but only when he is healthy which ain't alot. He is back on the DL now Phil Rogers called Brandon McCarthy a proven workhorse & used that as his reason for bashing the Danks-for-McCarthy deal when it was made. He also called Juan Silverio a man-child. Phil Rogers came up so I mentioned that, because there's no better evidence of Phil Rogers' baseball knowledge than that McCarthy comment. BMac was a reliever when he was dealt who made several extremely key starts for us which helped us win a Championship. But he wasn't on the playoff roster & nothing he ever did in a Sox uniform made him anything close to a workhorse, or really even proven as a starting pitcher.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 2, 2013 -> 02:14 PM) Rockin how can you not blame KW for acquiring Dunn? That acquisition has pretty much ruined the past few seasons and next season as well. Ozzie ruined 2012. Dunn was worth his contract. You can choose to ignore his career stats up until signing with the White Sox if you like, but in the real world, players who achieve what Dunn achieved get those kinds of contracts. If the Sox didn't sign him someone else would have been saddled with his deal. GMs, like anyone else on the planet, need to be evaluated based on what they were able to do with what they had to work with & with the information available at the time. You can't punish a GM for not being a psychic. Yes Dunn was a high K machine, but he was also in his prime, left-handed, an OBP machine, and a huge power threat. Kenny only gave him 4 years, which was probably the bare minimum he was going to get. IIRC the Tigers were also in on him & there were people saying Dunn would get 5 years. This was a good on-paper move that backfired, and the type of move any GM could make. Take AA for instance, this guy was a genius 6 months ago & now he's garbage who needs to be ousted. Really? Did he completely lose all mental faculties over the last 6 months? Or did he make a couple moves that looked good on paper but turned to s*** on the field? Blaming KW for Dunn is completely ridiculous.