Flash Tizzle

Good topic. I'm genuinely intersted in the opinions of our fellow Soxtalkians. Especially those who consider themselves optimists (cough, jphat). While it's impossible to predict, I'd conservatively say 2010 at the earliest. One reason for this date, opposed to others listed, is based upon the current state of our farm system. If you believe conventional wisdom that it takes several years for good talent to emerge through the minor leagues, then any low-level prospects wouldn't be up until 2009/2010. However, aside from Carter, De Los Santos, and maybe Shelby, there's not a lot to look forward to. Not much above A-level ball either if you're looking for blue-chip status. Anything from this draft, which may be good or bad, won't be known until 2010. The strength of divisional opponents is an issue which may push us past 2010. You look at the lineups and pitching staffs (both in the minors and majors), and among Detroit, Minnesota, and Cleveland, we're behind in all both categories. It's not going to be a fun several years. One wildcard though is our payroll. Even at mediocrity we're likely to be around 75 million. Hardly chump change. We'll be more than able to sign several free agents if capable minor leaguers are filling positions for the league minimum. Problem is, watching Anderson, Sweeney, Fields I don't get the impression that's likely. More than Gio Gonzalez and Danks will be needed in the rotation as well.

Guillen feeling "embarrassed" and not himself. Doesn't like coming to the ballpark everyday, watching this ballclub, then having to talk about it afterwards to the media. I don't how he's going to last through the season, to be honest.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 08:56 PM) We started rebuilding over last offseason....it was obvious. For his next rebuilding effort, he should probably avoid players who've performed well in Mexican Leagues --without stellar minor league numbers -- or who were drafted high and had yet to reach their potential.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 09:51 PM) 2008 = Egbert Beyond = We'll have Jack have lots of kids. I would think 2008 = Gonzalez; 2009 = Egbert. Maybe Poreda is our LIriano. All they have to have him do is tilt his release and teach him a slider.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 09:52 PM) Flash....I can't believe you were expecting a lot of runs tonight. It was foolish of me, I know. I thought Sampson wouldn't have lasted five innings the way the offense appeared to hit him around the first time through the lineup.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) Egbert could see his way to the pen this year as his skillset would work best at USCF, but I'd kinda rather that didn't happen. Lefties are still hitting him a bit. Lefties are hurting Russell. Gio is limiting both, but I'd be surprised to see them bring him up for the pen. Of course, Vasquez and Reynoso in AAA are slowing down now, and I don't see Oneli coming up. Best case, Aardsma figures something out. MacDougal hasn't pitched in a while, IIRC, so maybe they are letting him get some rest. You still didn't answer my question of how we're expected to match the rotations within the division in 2008 and beyond.

Future All-Star Josh Fields completely whiffs on two sliders. Currently 0/11 on the season, and proving once again how pitiful this organization is at producing talent.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 09:40 PM) At this point, I want to know how we'll match the hitting. The Indians and Tigers are going to have top-notch offenses for a long time. We need jphat back Ha, I completely forgot about him. Is it any coincidence we've had a terrible stretch he hasn't posted much in the last several weeks? Far as the hitting, I'm more confident we'll pay for complimentary pieces then I am that we'll pay for pitching.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 09:20 PM) The only problem is, even those three are starting to slow down. I still don't think they are any worse than some of the guys we've got going right now. At least how they are throwing. Russell has fallen off a cliff recently. Whatever he had earlier is obviously gone. Gonzalez better not falter one bit. His presence is key to our future, whether or not he's a future #2 or #4 (as people seem to believe). Still wondering how we're going to match the pitching staffs within the division. De Los Santos is still too raw, and too far away.

Nick Masset is an example of why I fear Williams attempting to receive anything of value for any of our players in the coming months. Receiving Danks for McCarthy obviously appears to benefit us, atleast this early, but Masset and Rasner have hardly been the additonal pieces one would cites as reasons to have faith in this ballclub's future. Rasner to a lesser extent, yes, but still -- the trade is equivalent to taking one step back, one and a half steps forward. We're not improving our team much. Next trade Williams makes, it needs to obviously benefit our club. With more potential than Masset and Rasner.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 08:53 PM) The next nail in the coffin will be getting Jon Adkins-like players in return for Buehrle and Dye. I can't wait. Dye, at this point, might as well remain on the White Sox until the end of the season. It's literally PATHETIC. how his production has fallen off. Not only is he not hitting, but his injured knee is making trading him nearly impossible. So there's no decent return possible. Next, if he doesn't begin hitting well leading up to September, there's a chance we may not receive Type A compesnation. Which means we may not receive someones first round draft pick. It's just a terrible mix of circumstances. Dye is not only hurting our present, but future. Atleast Iguchi seems to be coming around... At best, Buehrle should bring something valuable. He just needs to stay healthy and get himself righted against the weak national league.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 08:46 PM) You'll need to wait for a new GM before the Sox get a prospect like that.... But surely we can trade for one. If not midseason, over the offseason. Right?!! Wow. This is becoming embarrassing again.

That's the closest statement to the truth I've heard Hawk say in quite awhile. "It's one thing to struggle against Doc Halladay. Another to struggle against pitchers you would only describe as average. We're making cy-youngs out of a lot of people."

Where's our Hunter Pence?

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 07:59 PM) Where are the chat room folks? And Iguchi's seeing the ball real well now. Even his outs are being crushed. Personally, I can only access the chat from my laptop -- which currently is with my brother god knows where. It will return tomorrow.

The way the lineup has handled Sampson thus far, even with their offensive troubles, if less than five runs are across the board I'll be shocked. Nearly every out has been crushed.

Future All-Star Josh Fields pops up a meat ball. Inning.

De Los Santos obviously preparing himself for a promotion. 6IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 3BB, 10K

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) Big $$$ for signing bonuses > Influence of Guillen Of course. But big signing bonuses + Guillen's influence = something no one else can match. A deciding factor in Felix Hernandez signing with Seattle was the presence of Freddy Garcia. If we can't use our World Series championship or notable manager to draw in talent, in addition to enough funds available to sign talent, then it's a disgrace. I've already set the expectations of a legitimate #1 or #2 starter emerging by 2010 from Venezuela. It's time someone does their job down there. And none of this answers the question of where our VSL team went.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 05:18 AM) According to that article Poreda was the target all along. And for some reason they all thought he had a chance of being taken before us too. Kind of odd since he wasnt on anyones mock to even be in the 1st round or supplemental draft for all I know. Why is it we get all excited for lame pitching prospects. Although atleast this time it seems like we took a guy with top of the rotation potential if everything goes right. Lip service from Reifert. Doesn't the feeling on Poreda sound familar to you? Last year's draft: http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th.../draft_day.html

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 10:40 PM) How has no message been sent yet? Nothing from Kenny, Ozzie is laid back, nothing from Reinsy, and Walker hasn't been fired or reassigned yet. Please surprise me with a move tonight Sox. Here's something that won't surprise you. From Chicagosports.com "But hey, this dude ran onto the field to keep things interesting in the ninth inning."

Earlier I attempted to browse through the statistics of our Venezuelan summer league team and noticed our split squad with Baltimore isn't present. Does anyone know why this is? Please don't say they've abandoned it in the one damn country the influence of Guillen and the White Sox should hold a monopoly on outgoing talent.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 01:28 AM) As it stands, Porcello>Pordea. However, if it were that simple, he would probably be a Royal right now. Just remember, 20+ teams passed on Porcello just like the Sox did. Sure it would have been nice to see the Sox take a bold move, but 20 some odd teams made the exact same choice the Sox did. Whatever reason you may feel justifies our decision to select Poreda instead of Porcello, the fact remains a divisonal rival selected the second overall rated pitcher. A team already full of projectable arms with another (Miller) ready to replace Robertson in the rotation. It's past the time of reasoning. Phrases such as "29 other teams would want a (insert pitcher)" too are no longer valid. Whether that be in regards to our draft selections or the money alloted to international scouting. If we don't find a legitimate ace within the forseeable future to combat those of other teams it's not going to be a good 4-5 years. Why else were our first five selections pitchers other than Williams and company saying to themselves, "oh s***, we somehow have to match Verlander/Miller/Porcello/Bonderman." If the White Sox feel selecting a college lefthander with medicore numbers and one pitch because of signability exceeds the need to revive a stagnant farm system with a pitcher drawing comparisons to Verlander, all because he commands 9+million, then it freightens me to think how they will compete in the international market.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 11:31 PM) So, who projects to be @ the top of next year's draft? From what I recall, Vanderbilt's third baseman Pedro Alvarez will be somewhere in the discussion. I'm sure daa84 could provide more on him.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 12:32 AM) he better have an off-the-chart GB/FB ratio if they expect a guy with his college strikeout rate to succeed in the majors. Surrendering 7 HRs in 99 collegiate innings isn't a very good indication of that. Maybe we'll teach him how to throw something besides a fastball like we have Sisco and Thornton.