Flash Tizzle

Updates? Who has wet the bed aside from Willis?

First time I've watched Zambrano pitch since last season, and it's amazing how much weight he's lost. I'd estimate around 20 pounds.

Spring Training or not, losses against Oakland usually follow a similar plot. We'll be behind, go ahead, then lose late. I've just come to expect it. Another stellar bed wetting by our pitching prospects, ST invitees.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 04:21 PM) Sorry, couldn't help myself. Just playin' around. Seriously, no problem. I added an emoticon to show my appreciation for self-depriving humor.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 04:10 PM) See, you just keep adding letters to words, so now you've lost even more credibility. If you can't spell a simple gemological word like "facet", why would anyone believe your evaluations of the jewels of our minor league system? It's amusing. You little, little man. HA, and I incorrectly used 'choir' in place of 'chore' in another thread. Was called out, of course. I supose this is what happens when I devote more than 10 posts in one day to Soxtalk. I expose my weaknesses in verb usuage, grammar, AND baseball knowledge.

No clue. I believe only MLBtv subscribers have access to this afternoon's game. Not on the TV or radio; and since MLB doesn't offer gameday services for spring training games I'm in the dark.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 03:46 PM) Bold prediction: Broadway throws well today. WHOA there. Let's not get crazy or anything. If he pitches through an inning against Oakland's 'C' players without atleast one baserunner it'll be a substantial step forward. Thus far, it's been a choir retiring other teams minor league talent.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 02:19 PM) FWIW, Flash is one of the most level-headed posters we have here. As he mentioned in his response, it doesn't matter how he spelled the prospect's name. We all knew who he was talking about, and the point he made was clear. Don't know if many would agree with you there. Ask Greasy about me being level headed and he'll likely reply with this:

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 01:02 PM) LOL. I've never seen a guy go on such a long tangent about a prospect, and what he could net you, without even knowing the kid's damn name. That kills your credibility with everything else in this post. If you don't know the name of one our better IF prospects, and a high selection in last year's draft, what makes you think that anybody cares about your evaluation of a guy in the Angel's system that you've surely never heard of?(longest sentence ever) BTW... 5 or 6th best IF prospect, IN BASEBALL? Keep on making things up. It's amusing. Yeah, adding an additional 'n' to the name completely alters the post. Half the board doesn't even know who he is, let alone what position he plays! I could have called him Getzenstein and many wouldn't have known the difference. No one needs to care about my evaluation. I don't post on Soxtalk to gain credibility in the internet world. Frankly, if we're judging pure knowledge of every fascet of baseball, only a handful of people on this site are qualified. And concering Casilla--you obviously misunderstood the context of my post. Rotoworld listed Casilla as the Angels 5th/6th rated infield prospect. Sorry the absence of an "ir" after "the" threw you off. Jabroni understand what I meant, you--because you didn't read previous posts upon entering this thread--didn't. OMG, YOUR CREDIBILITY HAS BEEN ANNIHILATED!!!1111

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:18 PM) Flash, let me ask you this. If you were told that if the Sox were going to end up being back to back champs in 05 and 06, but in 08-12 we were going to be a 4th place team, would you take the 06 title? It can really go one way or the other, just want to hear your take. That's interesting. I would probably say yes now, but in a few years, regret my decision when Indians and Twins were trampling over our corpses. All I know is Sox fans have endured countless year of .500 teams, and I certaintly wasn't content with mediocrity. The stigma of a World Series Championship only lasts for so long. You'd think after winning several titles in the late 90's, 2000, Yankee fans would be content. We all know that wasn't true. Ask hardcore Bulls fans if two seperate three peats make recent struggles bearable.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:19 PM) I thought it was a great trade at the time. But you seem to have a pretty good grasp on things. Do you think if we asked the White Sox real nicely they'd let you become the GM for us! I mean, it really looks like we need it! Hey, I'll admit right now I'm far from having a "good grasp" on everything. I judge trades from my personal opinion based upon information (ie, statistics, scouting reports) collected from fellow Soxtalkians, articles, etc. Obviously, Williams is the general manager and he's the person discussing prospects with officials who have been monitoring prospects since there addition to our club. I've been proven wrong before, probably be proven wrong again. Never intended to suggest what I write is to be taken as gospel.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:18 PM) So tell me how trading a starting Cf'er and two scraps overpaying for a top of the rotation starter? You still havent cleared that up for me. I was happy when the trade was announced, pitching is a premium, especially with our needs that season. We didnt need Reed, or Morse, or Olivo. Did I not answer this? AT THE TIME, those players weren't regarded as scraps. Just as in the future, a package likely won't be involving scraps based on our projections of the players potential. You can chalk the Garcia scenario up and say, "it proves not to be overly critical of a trade immediately," but I just can't do that. I'm too demanding. But seriously, it's difficult to assess a trade for anything other then it's immediate implications. Olivo was our starting catcher, Reed top prospect, and Morse a raw infield prospect with an imposing stature and possibiliy to be the dark horse of the trade. Similar to Gonzalez, Haigwood, their departure immediately depletes our system of pitching depth. Many have admitted as such. If Thome helps us win a World Series, then obviously, their inclusion is worthwhile. If Gonzalez, Haigwood are both in the Phillies rotation circa 2009, and we're without a World Series with Thome, it would affirm my criticism. All I could do now, as I did with the Garcia trade, is base critques off what we've projected from them--and how our team currently stands.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:15 PM) Kenny wants to win this thing again, THIS YEAR, and I dont think he is going to get the bullpen get in the way.He will get somebody, even if it means overpaying. Yeah, it wouldn't make sense for all Williams moves to suggest his desire to win now. then suddenly--with the issue of a weakened bullpen-- rely on a collection of s***ty minor leaguers/ST invitees.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:09 PM) When did this occur???? For Garcia. It worked out for us, I can't disagree with that. I'm saying at the moment the trade was approved, I don't know many who looked at the package provided for Garcia and were happy. Did Williams know Morse would be average, Reed an Aaron Rowand clone, and Olivo a free-swinging pile of crap? Did he predict a huge shift in the offseason market for pitchers? Trades often are best assessed over a long period, as we've witnessed with the Garcia trade. Williams is a smart general manager, but he's not a genius. Only Beane holds that title. I'm merely suggesting for a trade to occur which gives our club a pitcher of Garcia's caliber, we'll again have to overpay based on our analysis of players at that particular moment.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 11:25 AM) 1 out of how many? Right now you have BMAC, Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, Owens etc A couple out of many that didnt work out. For the majority, prospects are just trade bait. I know people continually cite Williams' trades involving highly touted prospects and use it as proof they frequently fail. The entire issue is really a double edged sword. If a departed prospect were to exceed expectations and produce, suddenly, Williams would appear like an idiot for including them. However, if you trade prospect after prospect after prospect which supposedly was highly regarded, and none of them perform, you wonder where the organization is heading. Because it's not as if we're keeping the right ones. Of the players you listed above, only McCarthy has proven himself worth a damn. Even Sweeney in all his glory couldn't be expected to exceed Dye's production. Or Fields with Crede. Owens is the lone suitor for Podsednik, and even that isn't exactly a compliment. Our system is rooted with crap, but honestly, we need SOME talent for the future. Even if they don't project to much more than an average player. I'll be happy if any of the above contribute immediately upon arrival. Prospects don't work out, yes, but as Balta suggested--and the Yankees themselves have realized--plugging in players not big named and not commanding 10 million dollars is economically smart. I can't look at our future, even with a payroll approaching 100 million, and remain confident we're alright. Big talent will command big money. In two years, when Garcia and Contrereas are gone, it's going to be difficult outbidding other teams for pitchers of their caliber. Our method will be, once again, trading prospects midseason to a contender and drastically overpaying. This method has worked leading up the World Series, but would you bet on that method again?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 02:11 AM) How do you think we got guys like Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee? Maggio Ordonez Carlos Lee We also got a damn good player in Iguchi from Japan in case you've forgotten. Shingo was only good for one season but the Sox also recruited him from Japan. I think you are being overly pessimistic. Cmon, Jabs. Those signings took place respectively 15 and 12 years ago. What's been going on since? Those foreign scouts have had one hell of slump. Iguchi was recruited by Williams from a video tape. Shingo, I believe, was recruited through the same method. Although I am pessimistic, I'm tired of the crap. Our hitters are fine, but there's no above average player. Nothing to be critical about. If we're merely producing Aaron Rowand clones there's still a wide market for a good defensive outfielder capable of consistently hitting .280. It's our pitching which disgusts me. Maybe Brandon McCarthy is the baseball Gods gift for the years of sucktitude we've produced. His way of suggesting, "here's your ace--now prepare for soft tossing t-ball stands the next 6 years."

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 01:23 AM) The Angels are the most ridiculous farm system in baseball. They have some insane hitting prospects. The Angels and Dodgers are in a whole other league when it comes to farm systems (at this moment). What's the reason? Los Angeles scouts been solid since the early 90's. Is it as simple as suggesting both Angel and Dodger scouting departments are tremendous at identifying talent? Are their foreign scouts actually traveling south of Texas, unlike ours? Damn, do we even have representatives in Venezuela or the Domincan Republic? I believe Guillen opening a baseball facility recently in Venezuela was a tremendous idea. Not for the community, no--but when a situation arises where employeers observe a quality prospect we can snatch that bastard right up.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 01:06 AM) I don't understand what you mean. Chris Getz tore it up in Single A as well. We probably could have gotten Romero for Getz but the Twins damn sure aren't going to trade a reliever to us. And we won the World Series last season. The Angels and Twins didn't. Would you rather we be the Twins and have a team with a crappy payroll, a s***hole stadium, and the risk of contraction? We won the World Series last year because KW wasn't afraid to trade highly rated prospects like Jeremy Reed, not because he horded unproven talent to show off an impressive farm system. If Getz could give our ballclub a pitcher on par with Romero I would overwhelmingly approve of it. But with that, I'd be a little reluctant since we're not exactly stacked with infield talent. You posted a rare trade scenario with Minnesota and Anaheim, and I'm suggesting it wouldn't likely occur with our ballclub. Sure, a team will accept Gentz alone, but are we receiving a pitcher of Romero's caliber? Probably not. Do you honestly believe I would rather have a highly touted farm system than a world series championship? There's no clear model to winning a title. I believe Almighty Beane has proven that assertion correct. However, I would like to have some talent available for our future. Ideally to suppliment our roster. Sustaining success is difficult in MLB; as evident by the fact no team has repeated since the Yankees. I'm looking forward to next year and hoping we repeat, but in addition, looking onward to 2007 and beyond. It's really not difficult to do--cheering for this years club to do well while silmutaneously criticizing our s***ty minor league system. I despise watching the Lance Broadway's of the world throwing meatballs, whereas a hardthrowing Twins pitcher spontaneously generated out of the air just now. I envy their system. They envy our championship. And to clarify my position, yes, I would rather have a world championship. I don't mention this in my posts because I believe it's implied. I can complain all night about our system, but you've kept me up too long. We've diverted attention from the topic long enough. Jphat will s*** himself in the morning with my sacreligeous comments, anyways. So I'll probably pick it up then if it drags on, and people continue to believe our weak system consumes my life....

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:44 AM) His name is Chris Getz. And just because the Angels have a better farm system than us doesn't mean that Alexi Casilla is some sort of stud prospect. John Sickels didn't even have Casilla ranked on his Angels Top 20 Prospects list. Why? Because guys that break out in Single A are a dime a dozen. Acknowledging that, it's even more of an indictment on our minor leauge development. What does it say when players with comparable numbers on opposing teams are listed as 14 in one, and not listed in another. You can criticize Sickels, but the true difference is our system is weak. Even if Getz turns to s***, he's the best of the Low league talent we have. Every prospect has to begin somewhere. Class A talent is abundant--yes--but for the Angels, they don't need to rest their future on those players. It would be different if Getz were an outfielder. Sox seem to have no problem developing those. For the reason Twins selected Casilla lends me to believe they notice something in him. They could afford to give up Romero for nothing, anyways, with the Juan Rincon cloning facility they seem to have built in Minnesota. Every year there's a new pitcher in their organization throwing 95+ with a nasty breaking ball.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 13, 2006 -> 12:01 AM) Okay, I'll give you another example... Alexi Casilla is no where near a top prospect and the Angels netted a decent lefty in J.C. Romero for him. Angels farm system exceeds ours to such a degree it's almost ridiculous. Only they could have such a hitter available in their low A system, trade him, and not blink. Whose a hitter in our organization with such numbers in Low A that Williams could trade without hurting us? Take Casilla's number on our Low A ballclub and they'd exceed everyones aside from Gentz. According to John Sickels, Gentz is rated as our 14th prospect. Casilla, with his numbers, is the 5th/6th rated INFIELD prospect. Not including outfield or pitchers. Considering our organization hasn't exactly done well recently producing IF talent, I'd think twice about moving Gentz. Although honestly, without hesitation, I'd trade Gentz alone if it gave us Romero. But you add our 14th rated prospect, another prospect, Borchard for a decent reliever--in an offseason where we've unready unloaded the pantry of prospects--I'm a little reluctant. That decent reliever status better be more assured that a Felix Diaz clone.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 11:58 PM) BTW, I guess Kenny was on Talkin' Baseball with Levine and Defalco this morning(before Hermansons back went out...) and Williams flat out said he thought the bullpen was a concern. I did not hear the piece, this is all 2nd hand from my father. He said he got the jist Kenny was going to make a move, and rather quickly if possible. That's odd. I shouldn't be surprised, but usually you would expect an executive--when assessing his team-- to give the usual bulls*** about "our guys will perform," "I have confidence in them," etc. Atleast he recognizes an upgrade is necessary. Personally, I agree something will happen soon. We can't just wait around till the end of spring training, trade several players, then automatically throw add the bullpen arm to our roster. Especially if it's for Borchard/prospects. You figure the person we'd receive for such a package isn't exactly proven. Their talent needs to be assessed.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 11:21 PM) I doubt we would have to trade any of those guys for a decent reliever. Do you remember who we traded for Scott Sullivan back in 2003? Tim Hummel and some cash. Tim Hummel is back with the Sox now. I'm thinking more along the lines of Borchard + a mid-level prospect or two. That's an entirely different situation. First, it was midseason. Second, Cincinnati was willing to unload anyone with a salary above one million. Sullivan, at the time of the trade, was a good example of an average pickup. Not anyone you'd expect to dominate opposing hitters, but rather, eat innings. We're not going to be the recepient of such a gift preseason. But if I'm wrong and Borchard plus (s***ty) mid-level prospects give us a decent reliever, I'll be satisfied.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 11:01 PM) We don't have a ton of talent in the farm system but we have enough to net a decent reliever without having to trade Contreras. Would that mean goodbye Sweeney, Owens, or Fields? Sort of f***s up Williams 4 year board.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 10:45 PM) You can't just say that all Texas relievers suck. Many of them suck every year due to park factors. We're not going to get a stud here. We just need a decent guy who can pitch some innings to give rest to our better relievers. No, I never intended to suggest all Texas relievers suck. I simply believe a team where pitching talent of even a limited quality is sought, if any one pitcher shows atleast some potential, they'd hold onto them. We're sure as hell not going to get a stud here from Texas. Never expected that. I wouldn't even expect a decent guy to eat innings. Although that depends on what you define as 'decent'. I don't want a Felix...6+ERA..1.75WHIP....HR surrendered every two fricken innings...Diaz because he pitches innings and is a bridge to better relievers. I want someone obtained who can reasonably be expected to mirror Hermanson's expected 4.00-4.50 numbers. If he were healthy, that is.

QUOTE(BamaDoc @ Mar 12, 2006 -> 10:35 PM) At this point, the last thing I would do is weaken my starters. If all I need is 6 outs or so a night, this bullpen can survive. If you trade a starter and Bmac goes into the rotation and has a bad night or anyone gets hurt you can burn up a bullpen in a hurry. Ozzie may have to adjust slightly to not doing quite as much L-L, R-R, switching. The easing in of Jenks last year makes me think he has a better idea of his staff than many gave him credit for. Those 6 outs are considered difficult for a reason. With all the one run games we've played last year, a weakened bullpen shifting roles one inning sooner may leave your Pedro Lopez' of the world out for one batter too long. If Cotts and Politte had more than one consecutive year of superb numbers and Jenks had more than one year under his belt I'd feel more confident about our bullpen. No one knows what to expect from McCarthy. Hermanson's back is falling off. There's not really one pitcher you could say, for sure, "he's a lock for a sub 2 ERA." If you trade a starter (Contreras) we'll hopefully receive a bullpen addition and a pitcher capable of filling in for any injured pitcher.