ChiSox59

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 10:25 AM) Why? Kyle Tucker's trajectory right now is the moon. Low K's, high BB, big frame that can easily fill out for big power, athletic corner OF...what dont you like? The risk? The fact that he's not high enough ranked on lists? And why would he be the only position player? You think the Astros are like "OK you only get ONE position player prospect that's IT" I dont think so. Because you just said that Musgrove + 2 top 50 prospects isn't happening. That trade is Tucker + Musgrove + Martes, which is not what the Sox need right now. And if you think THAT is too much - what in the world are you expecting? Outside of Bregman (not moving), Tucker, and Reed, the Astros position player prospects are pretty uninspiring.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:59 AM) What's wrong with Kyle Tucker? Nothing is wrong with him, he is a nice piece and definitely the guy the Sox would need to have from the Astros system because Bregman isn't moving. That said, if he is the only position player prospect you receive in a Q trade, that'd be incredibly disappointing.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:47 AM) My entire premise is his expectations are ridiculous and need to be lowered. Torres + Frazer + Rutherford is not happening, Musgrove + two top 50 prospects isn't happening, Bregman isn't happenng, Swanson isn't happening, Meadows + Bell isn't happening. It wont happen now, it wont happen in July, it wont happen unless Jose Quintana becomes Clayton Kershaw. Doesn't mean he cant still get a good deal. Right now the Sox have a bad major league roster and a good-not-great farm that probably isn't good enough to elevate the major league team to success. They are doing a soft reboot, not an all out rebuild. Well, if the Sox still have just a "good not great farm" that means only a few clubs in the league have great farms. Maybe thats your opinion. Look man, this has been discussed ad nauseam. Clearly you don't care to process the fact that perhaps the teams that would potentially be in the market for Quintana at his price tag (I think we both can agree this is a limited group) either doesn't have the top end talent that the Sox seek, or are unwilling to move it at this juncture. This is something that can change. Perhaps not this offseason, but sometime in the future. New top end bats will emerge. Right now, no one seems willing to move a top tier position player prospect. Kyle Friggin' Tucker is the best bat that seems to be available for Q, and even on him there have been mentions that the Astros don't want to move him. So you're left with a bunch of mid-tier guys that aren't acceptable centerpieces. I PROMISE YOU THAT THIS WILL CHANGE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS. The Sox have time, and they clearly are content using it. Plus, if you think a Musgrove, Martes and Tucker package is something the Sox should jump all over, we're definitely never going to agree. It's an OK package, not one that I would be very excited about if Q was the first of the three dominoes moved, but now that we have Giolito, Lopez, Kopech and Dunning in the mix in addition to the arms that were already in the Sox farm, it'd be disappointing because it's pretty obvious we need young bats. Yes - take best package and figure it out later - but clearly the focus should be on position players.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:35 AM) Well it has to keep being repeated all the time. Yah, because clearly RH hasn't gotten an offer he wants to pull the trigger on yet. Therefore, here we are. The day he gets that offer, I assure you he'll take it. In the meantime, hold your damn horses. Trading him now for a bunch of B and C level prospects does this organization ZERO good, outside of perhaps making a top 3 pick more likely, which to me, should be significantly below hitting a home run on the Quintana trade on the priority scale.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 09:32 AM) Yes. If you aren't acquiring game changers, what's the purpose of trading him? Because Conte de Giolito and Baron want him to, damn it!

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 08:15 AM) That is exactly what I'm suggesting. That they likely have some nice offers on the table, but have specific targets (Meadows, Torres, etc) they're waiting to see if ultimately become available. Any by all means wait until spring training and see if one of those untouchables suddenly become touchable. We control THIS market and can take our time for now. But I'll keep repeating this, if one of those targets doesn't become available, don't pass up on good value right now in hopes of a perfect offer later. Nothing is promised tomorrow. If teams aren't willing to pony up in what is considered the worst free agent market for starting pitching in the history of baseball, I find it highly unlikely we'll do better at the deadline or next offseason when market conditions are less favorable. So f'in sick of this narrative.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 05:50 PM) Only $12M per for Trumbo...crazy, 5 years ago he probably gets a contract bordering on $100M. I think it might be real tough to get anything other than a couple lotto ticket 19 year olds for Frazier and Melky if/when they do get moved. Melky, ya probably. Frazier? He can actually play a position and is better bat than Trumbo. Problem is, market for 3B is garbage right now. But I think he'll still get something decent when moved.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 03:21 PM) If Collins can stick at catcher, the overall tools he brings make him the best catching prospect in baseball in my opinion Hit hit tool and power tool are the best of the top catching prospects by a considerable margin A passable catcher who can hit is worth gold Completely agreed, which is why the Sox will give him every opportunity to learn how to catch.

.255/.330/.475 37 HRs 28 2Bs 101 RBIs 13 SBs

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 01:36 PM) Pipeline has begun releasing their top 10 prospects at each position for a series they do. Here is the RHP: http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=rhp #3 Lucas Giolito, #4 Michael Kopech, and #10 Reynaldo Lopez Top 10 LHP Prospects: http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=lhp Top 10 catchers: http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=c Zack Collins is #4 Worth noting that Collins was #2 previously, but that probably has more to do with those ahead of him upping their stock, versus Collins dropping. I expect Collins to move upwards on the top 100 list.

NM

QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 11:48 PM) God i hope so. Nothing would make me happier than getting the ist pick in the draft 2 years in row and being ready to compete in 2019. In fact if doesnt happen i will be pissed. Lose and lose big the next. 2 years. Puts a smile on my face. This line of thinking cracks me. Yay - can't wait to watch my favorite baseball team win 100 games over the next two years!!! That would literally blow. I realize this is going to take some time, and the Sox are likely to suck for the next two years, but god damn it, I am going to root for them to turn this thing around quickly. Summer is much more enjoyable when you have good baseball to watch.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:42 AM) Straily and Gonzalez may be comparable pitchers but the trade isn't a benchmark to gauge Gonzalez's value at all. If Gonzalez had four times the control that he has the Sox would likely get 2-3x the return they'll likely get in return for him. Yes, thank you. Thats what I was getting at. Comparable pitchers - yah, maybe. Their returns wouldn't be comparable at all, which was why I responded that way to the comment saying that the Strailey trade is insight into what a potential MiGo trade may look like. Anyways...moving on.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:27 AM) I'm not arguing that the Marlins could have added more to that package and received Q though. Marlins have no where near enough to land Q.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 09:26 AM) We also didn't complete a trade for MiGo. The point is this is not any sort of benchmark for Q or top of the line pitcher. There is no way to say "oh well they gave up 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system for a pitcher with a sudden improvement, and Q is worth...100x that. What is 100x 3 top 15 prospects from a terrible system?" "...Three. Hundred. Prospects." That's not really what you said. You said this is insight into what a possible MiGo trade would look like - and the two arent really comparable because one has 3 additional years of control.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 08:12 AM) Can we trade them Miguel Gonzalez for Braxton Garrett please? While Migo and Stailey may appear to have had similar 2016s, one is controlled for 1 season, the other 4. Not really comparable.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 06:19 PM) Has nothing to do with Christmas or getting the prospects ASAP. For me it's about overplaying his hand and having the other teams call your bluff that I'm worried about. Its hard to overplay your hand when you have such a limited group of teams involved in the discussions with the assets you'd legitimately want as a position player centerpiece. We know the names - they've been discussed at length. None of those guys are available. By all indications the "untouchables" have been just that - outside of Moncada. Quintana is the type of pitcher that is going to be in demand by all 29 teams, literally at all time, unless something drastically changes (injury, performance). Sure, the market appears to be in the such a good position that you can't pass up moving Q while the iron is hot, but RH has set the market so high, it is possible no one involved in the talks is going to match that's price right now. So that brings you to where we appear to be today. Teams offering nice packages, but nothing that makes you blush. Top tier guys being offer appear to be pitchers. Tucker perhaps the best name we've heard being available (rumored Archer offer). So it seems you, and some other people, are ok with grabbing a Tucker, Martes + or Glasgow + Newman + but to me, and I think at least a good faction of others that think that is a short sighted move. No teams involved in the discussions appear to be desperate enough, and until that happens, you hold. I've been saying this since November with regard to Q (and Sale), and to this point, our fearless leader has executed. He has said this will take time, and thankfully Q's contrast allows us that flexibility. The time will likely come. Whether its this winter or not. But right now the offers aren't there or the deal would have been made. Someone will budge. Someone will give up a sure fire talent. This is a trade that the White Sox need to hit on.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 04:14 PM) Without Q, we are looking at a rotation of: Rodon Shields Gonzalez (maybe he can get flipped mid-season) Holland One of Covey, Beck, or other Starting lineup would be: C Narvaez, Soto 1B Abreu (could be traded but seems unlikely) 2B Lawrie, Moncada second half unless he is doing terrible at AAA 3B Frazier (could be traded mid-season) SS Anderson LF Melky (could be traded mid-season) CF Tilson, Liriano RF Garcia, Liriano DH Davidson? Garcia or probably more likely a late MLB signing (Carter, Lind, Alvarez) Pretty much. yah. Hopefully Saladino gets a good chunk of ABs as well.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 03:51 PM) Have Matt Davidson as a potential option as well Yah, at this point in his "development", may as well just give him 300+ at bats and see if he can do anything.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 04:07 PM) Chicago market. Some goofy groupings. I don't like how they differentiated based on market. Should be historical organizational payroll or something.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 04:54 PM) Stroganoff hahahahaha Lol, I thought the same thing. Assuming he meant Stroman.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 02:05 PM) So lets just say a year passes and we're in this exact same spot with Q. The guys who are on board with waiting arent going to complain if his value drops right? You'll just say it was a risk worth taking? Thing is, you'll have absolutely zero clue if his value actually dropped, unless he has a catastrophic injury, or turns into a little league pitching machine next season. Teams are only willing to give up so much. Just look at the Sale trade. If the Sox traded him last winter, I doubt they do any better than they did in December. Assuming Q goes out and does his thing (lets remember that he has historically gotten some of the worst run support in the league and poor defense - really cant get much worse in that regard), his value is going nowhere. That is a much safer bet than acquiring Martes, Tucker and Paulino and hoping like hell one or more of those guys actually turn into a meaningful asset. Plus, you have to also recognize that the Sox really need an infusion of position player talent, and to this point, it seems like the available packages are pitching focused. I tend to agree that you take the best package available and sort it out later, but in this case, acquiring hitting is obviously hte priority. Those of us in the patience crowd are all about trading Q if the price is right - I assure you of that. But the aforementioned package, or even then the supposedly rumored package of Martes, Tucker and Musgrove doesn't exactly get me all warm and fuzzy. I think the assumption is that if the Astros really turned that down, they're offering something significantly less, that is going to be very underwhelming.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 11:51 AM) No it isnt. No one on here is asking just make a trade because I want a trade. There's been in depth conversation as to why it may not be prudent to wait sure. But that doesnt equate to that last remark. It's just lazy. Its sort of irrelevant, so I won't take the take to debate it, but there are definitely people here who's comments would lead you to believe they think the best plan of action right now is to accept the best offer on the table right now, whether or not it is up to par with with what Hahn wants. That is pretty much making a trade to make a trade. The Sox have nothing but time with Q. Settling for a trade at this juncture is asinine, IMO.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 11:47 AM) No one on here is arguing for that last part. I get sick of hearing it. Ehhhh, slightly debatable.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 06:44 AM) Team is not nearly bad enough to get into the Beer mix as it stands today. This. At this point I have no idea if we're going to have Q or not, but this team with Q and a likely addition at DH and maybe even an Austin Jackson isn't THAT bad of a baseball team. This fan will be rooting for wins to start the year.