SCCWS

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) I agree with you. General consensus seems to be that the Sox buried themselves for the next few years by "going for it" in 2015, but I don't think that's the case at all. I liked the moves they made almost solely because they DIDN'T bury themselves. Offering high dollar/low years free agent contracts, trading only mid-tier prospects exclusively from positions of depth, and continually increasing (or at least maintaining) investment levels in amateur talent despite the ML payroll increase are about the best possible strategies for building a sustained winner without nuking the entire system and turning Bridgeport into a post-apocalyptic wasteland for five years in the process. I think the problem with the 2015 moves is they did not upgrade any position with young talent.I agree they failed w the veterans they added but did not incur bad contracts. So 2015 was really a wasted year in that from a rebuilding standpoint, they did not improve. In hindsight, it is unfortunate that they couldn't have filled at least 1 or 2 holes with a talented young player. Maybe Sanchez has a chance to be that but his offense so far has been poor. We can also still hope Avi rebounds but that hope is running out. The good news is Q and Rodon improved and Sale is still a star.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 15, 2015 -> 02:06 PM) Having rookies who hit dingers makes his job easier than having rookies who strike out and fail on defense. Actually Maddon did the same thing in Tampa. He was constantly subbing in late innings, mixing up starters and really using all 25 players on the roster.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) Thank you. You proved my point. With different better players, the Sox got better results. The manager doesn't remotely f***ing matter. He definitely does. The manager creates an atmosphere that either encourages or discourages the team. As I originally posted, I had not seen the Cubs play until this series. Look how Joe Maddon is making changes with his lineup. I would think having a lineup w 4 rookies playing key roles makes his job a lot tougher than a team w a strong veteran presence. The manager creates the atmosphere and ultimately is the cheerleader and the ass-kicker. Read Terry Francona's book about all the drama that comes with the job.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 14, 2015 -> 01:57 PM) So your observation is the reason that they're good is because they're good in every aspect of the game? Yes, they are well rounde but not very good in any aspect. But the White Sox are very good in starting pitching. So they need to deal from strength to improve their weakness on offense. For example, if the Sox traded Rodon, Sale and Q are probably better than any 2 SP on most teams.

I watched a decent amount of the Cubs/Cards series. This was my first look at the Cubs all season. My observations based on this series is that the Cubs resurgence is having good offense, good defense, good starting pitching( but aged) and a good bullpen. I have seen Maddon for many years both in Tampa as well as living in New England and watching the Red Sox. I think he is a very good manager. Can the White Sox make a turnaround like the Cubs did?? The White Sox have very good starting pitching( also young), below average offense and defense and I think w Jones back a good bullpen. I think Ventura needs to go. Looking at the Cubs roster, the Sox are really behind offensively.the Cubs have a solid group of 4-6 young position players. We may only have a couple in Abreu and Eaton. I have no clue what the Cubs have in the minors for pitching coming up but the Sox have limited offense on the horizon. So I think the White Sox will move either Q or Rodon and try and get 2 solid players back in return. That would weaken our SP to good but would be a big step in getting the offense and hopefully the defense improved. I don't see him trading w the Cubs but there will be plenty of trade partners for Hahn. I was glad to see Theo go as I hate the Red Sox. But I do admire the work he has done to assemble teams in Boston and now Chicago. Hopefully Hahn is able to do the same. Theo tended to struggle finding pitching in the draft w Boston so they used trades and FA to build staffs. But he always found offensive talent. It looks like the Cubs are taking the same approach. Cubs, Red Sox, Tigers, Indians , Astros, Cards etc all have added young studs in the infield the last few years. The White Sox have to make a smart trade and get a couple of studs for one of their young stud pitchers

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 11, 2015 -> 06:11 PM) This team isn't close unless we make a couple major moves. They are not that far away but I agree they need to make a couple of major successful moves. I say not that far away in that they have 3 very good LH starting pitchers. Few teams have 3 starting pitchers as good as the Sox do. I think they can trade Q or Rodon and get back at least 2 very good players in return. That would weaken the starting pitching but improve the offense and hopefully defense. Then by 2017 they can get or bring up ( Fulmer) a #3 type starter to replace the traded pitcher and Johnson can hopefully replace Shark. Anderson should also be a possibility for 2017 as well.

Boston played Travis Shaw at 1st base for the 2nd half of season once they traded Napoli at all star break. Why would they want LaRoche Shaw 25 years old --65 games-- 274 avg-13 HR 36 RBI 57 SO LaRoche 35 years old 127 games-- .206 avg-12 HR-44 RBI 133 SO Both are lefthanded. Why would Boston want LaRoche even for 1 season. If Hahn talks to them about Ramirez, they are going to want a SP back and unless it is Danks I would hope the White Sox pass. Here is a quote from one Boston media source: www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2015/06/boston_red_sox_trade... Meanwhile, WEEI.com's John Tomase is not particularly keen on the team's trade prospects. Even if the team brought in the players on big-time deals, the long-term trade value for Ramirez and Sandoval is pretty low at the moment. From WEEI.com: While there's been a call to "blow things up" again a la 2012, let's be realistic. What's the market for any of these players? Ramirez is a defensive liability with a history of clubhouse issues who's making minimal effort to improve. He's little more than a DH at this point, but playing him there next year would mean chasing franchise icon David Ortiz into retirement. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a 40-year-old Ortiz than a 32-year-old Ramirez. Sandoval is overweight and underperforming, working on his fifth straight season of declining OPS and looking unsuited to play third. Maybe he's a first baseman. Or maybe he's a DH, too. The Red Sox could be paying three of those nearly $60 million next year.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 05:47 PM) Q is being traded for an impact bat. Not a few prospects. I disagree. Q needs to fill more than 1 hole if you trade him. Otherwise you are only opening a hole to fill one. You don't trade a potential #1 starter or even a high #2 for one impact bat. I would trade him for 2 ML ready players and a high prospect.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 11:16 PM) I'm going to throw it out there, but what about Chris Davis? He's the best hitter available in free agency, can technically play multiple positions (allows both him & Abreu in the lineup in NL parks), and his addition would allow us to go defense-oriented at a couple of spots. Sign Zobrist and trade for a catcher (will use Derek Norris here) and go with something like this: 1. Eaton, CF 2. Zobrist, 3B 3. Abreu, DH/1B 4. Davis, 1B/DH 5. Cabrera, LF 6. Thompson, RF 7. Ramirez, SS 8. Norris, C 9. Sanchez, 2B Huge question marks in the bottom half of the lineup, but at least they're all strong defenders. But that 1 - 5 would be very potent and could probably carry the load. Ben Zobrist plays a bunch of positions but not 3rd. In his career I don't think he has played 10 games there and I think he had problems when he did.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 08:47 AM) Bradley Jr is still way too unproven to take that kind of risk. Bradley had a great 1/2 season in AAA and then hit 10 hrs and 43 RBI in 74 games in majors. That would project to 20 and 90 in 150 games. He is already considered an elite OF who Boston is moving to CF next year. I Think if you can get a young catcher and CF for Q and hopefully they throw in a SP prospect, you do it. Agree there is a risk but last year people said the same for Bogaerts who had lesser numbers than Bradley and then exploded this year both at bat and in the field. My gut is Swihart is an untouchable though.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 9, 2015 -> 08:00 AM) Bosox love Betts; they would never trade him one for one for Q. If I am Hahn, I would not trade Q for Betts straight up. The Boston FO loves Betts but we don't know what Dombrowski thinks of him. If Bradley and Betts both return, Betts will get moved from CF next year to a corner since his throws from CF have been very erratic. Really good hitter and good speed in OF. But Q has to bring you 2 ML ready players not 1. I would rather have Bradley jr and Swihart for Q but not sure if Dombrowski will do that.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 11:34 AM) That's what I posted several pages ago on this thread. Watching Houston last night drove it home even more. You can't compete with a lineup made up of 30 something free agents who cost a ton and don't produce better than the young athletic power hitting speed demons that the Astros accumulated by tanking AND drafting position players well. Chris Carter not included

QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 06:26 AM) Dick, Your LaRoche stats fail to state an obvious point. In 2014, he struck out 21% of the time. In 2015, it was 33%. At some point during any season, a player who cannot hit simply needs to be kept out of the lineup until they can figure out how to hit, or to at least have better contact. LaRoche left so many men on base this past season, he cost the Sox runs. His QAB was so incredibly low he was pretty much an automatic out, especially with 2 strikes. A manager's job is to win games and nothing else. Putting LaRoche's needs above the team's most likely cost them runs and perhaps some wins. There's that pesky WAR factor again. If I were Ventura, I would see what happens to him in Spring Training. If it's the same, I would say eat the salary and get someone else. Shuck only struck out 11% of the time, so why not let him DH? They are both lefties. Why is this so hard for Ventura to figure out? That would be Hahn not Ventura making that decision.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 10:54 PM) I'd be pretty inconsolable if they moved this team Havana White Sox. Does Jerry smoke cigars????.............................

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 02:00 PM) Just look at Jim Leyland's career. His first 4 years were very similar to Robin's. Then his players developed, they were great for a few year, became free agents, Leyland starts losing. Goes to the Marlins, they have good players they win 92 games, they sell everyone off, the next year they lose 108. Goes to Colorado, they lose 90, goes to Detroit, and he's good again. Except that Leyland's first year and team were awful and then they got better and won pennants years 5, 6, and 7. Robin's best year was his first and he has not been able to get them to .500 since. But I do think talent is more important than the manager. John Farrell went from 2 mediocre years in Toronto to a WS title in Boston to two bad seasons since. Is he a good manager or a bad one??? Guys like Leyland, Francona, Farrell, Torre, Ozzie etc have had bad years and have won titles. But there are a ton of managers who have never won a title even with good teams. I think the bigger question is can Robin and his coaching staff take a team to a playoff spot even if they have enough talent to do it. If a company has a product that isn't selling, they better either change the product or change the sales people. Especially since the product on the North side ia getting a whole lot of attention.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 08:56 AM) But the question would be why would Theo have even hired Francona after the 4 year disaster in Philly? We have read here, no one would ever hire Robin, look at his record. Francona with crappy players is a dumb ass. Francona with Damon, and Papi, and Manny, and Youk in the line up and Pedro on the mound , is a genius. Curt Shilling had a big say in it. He played for Francona in Philly and the Red Sox wanted shilling to come to Boston.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 01:35 PM) Managing terrible Phillies teams to 4 straight losing seasons, he was so awful that they had to fire him. Luckily, the Red Sox knew exactly when he would be a great manager (4 years later) and he won a World Series in his first year managing them. Oh, by the way, the team scored 949 runs. What you failed to include was that the team scored 961 the year before in 2003. Theo's first year also.

He must have his eye on the Baines spot............................

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 12:04 PM) Yep, Betts quietly had a great year (5 WAR). I've said all along it would have to be a package of something like Betts, E. Rodriguez, Swihart and a good prospect. Unfortunately I don't think Boston would do something like that. But Dombrowski is more of a gunslinger than the previous regime so anything is possible. Betts besides the offense is a very good outfielder. But Bradley is considered a great outfielder and will push Betts to a corner next year. Add castillo and they have 3 young outfielders so they may trade one if FA market does not get them enough pitching. P)lus they have 2 solid young catchers as long as Vazuez comes back okay from TJ surgery. My guess is Hahn will trade elsewhere especially since the Avi trade did not go as well as expected w Dombrowski.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 08:24 AM) You look at the package Boston supposedly offered for King Felix. If the Sox got the same players for Sale, they have weakened their team. Yeah, you might not win keepimg Sale, but to think you would win trading him isn't logical. If the goal is to get an immediate boost in your farm system ranking, or you plan to suck for a few years, trade him. If you want to win games, and have the guy who starts game 1 of every playoff series on the roster, you keep him. With the contract he has, to pick up his production somewhere else, it would cost a fortune. I would not trade Sale. The reason is simple, you have other trade pieces. If a team offered a bundle for Sale, I would counter for a lesser bundle for Q or Rodon. But it may not cost a fortune to pick up Sale's production. For example, Boston has a bunch of young talented players--Bogaerts-Bradley-Betts-Vasquez-Swihart-Rodriguez all under similiar team friendly contracts. Now if Dombrowski offered 3 of them for Q I would jump at it. Unfortunately my guess is several of them have moved to the untouchable category as well.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 07:31 PM) Maddon is a good manager but the impact even a good manager can have on overall wins is pretty minimal. The Rays have won more games in 2015 than they did last year, and they made few changes in the off-season and were ravaged by injuries this year. They were ravaged by injuries last year and traded David Price at the All-Star break. Maddon had a good stretch w Tampa w numerous young players since they never went out and signed big free agents.

I am a White Sox fan living on the east coast. I also agree that managers get too much blame and credit. But I did see a good number of Tampa bay games in person the last few years and always thought Maddon got a lot out of a roster with limitations. I have not seen a single Cub game. But they had one hell of a reversal this season. I would think Maddon is a manager that has an impact.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 11:10 AM) Same here. I'm more concerned with the 3B, C, SS and RF positions. RV coming back is absolutely unsurprising. Just a thought. Red Sox announced yesterday that John Farrell will most likely return as manager as long as his doctor gives the okay. That leaves interim manager Torey Lovullo as a prime candidate for managerial openings. He was mentioned w the Cubs opening and was runner-up in Texas and Minnesota. Did a great job w Boston the last few months especially w a roster loaded w young players. Not a big name but a pretty good resume and probably comes cheap ( hear that RH)

I think the Sox need to try and add an OF in the off-season. If they can add a solid bat w average defense, then you can play Avi/Melky/ Thompson and Eaton in the best allignment around that player. Melky or Avi should move to Dh and LaRoche to another team.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 29, 2015 -> 08:34 AM) Absolutely not. We need the pitching depth. there are a few ML catchers who can hit anyway. Once again , trade Eaton. And if he's as good as everyone thinks he is, fantastic. That means we'll get more for him. Bad move. Eaton would bring you one player of value in return and open up a hole in CF and leadoff. Eaton and Abreu should be the only 2 guaranteed starters for next year. The rest of the positions could use changing or upgrading depending on the moves made. If in the course of upgrading they pick up a better CF you would move Eaton to left or right.