BlackSox13

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 08:08 AM) again you make a very good compelling point. however you are taking and seeing one part of this, the team spending. ok, last yr, they spent on Fa's, what was the final total salary of the team??? now use that number and see how many times over the course of, lets say 5 yrs did they, the sox spend to that amount. + / -. those writers you mention are looking at the big picture and are not getting fixated on something that is really not close to telling the story. btw, if they had the budget to pay for the top 3 Fa's, then they still have the budget to acquire another player. anyway all agreed that the sox, if necessary would sacrifice their comp pick to improve the team...... listen here, the word is improve??? what i see that you find poster like i as pathetic b/c i do not personally buy into that fluff. what i find most disconcerting is fans are so gullible to believe every little word that the FO spews without question. With 2nd tier free agents, does the end justify the means to improve the overall team? Are ticket and SOX apparel sales going to spike signing 2nd tier free agents like they would with players such as Cespedes/Gordon/Upton? Nope. Is giving up a draft pick and taking on the salary of players like Desmomd/Fowler worth the risk? Possibly and that's certainly debatable depending on ones POV. Personally, I think the risk is justifiable depending on the annual salary and length of contract. I would imagine the Sox FO office sees it the same way and are only willing to go so far and I don't blame them in that regard. What has the Sox FO spewed that has made fans so gullible? All they have said is that they are exploring all opportunities with reference to trades and free agents that do and do not come with comp picks attached. They have yet to come out and name a player they were directly going after, nor should they. As far as the financials go, we as fans have no choice but to take their word because none of us know exactly just how much money they have to spend, only speculation based on opinion. Due to the Sox willingness to spend in the past for what they perceive to be the right player(s) and as recently as last winter, I see no reason for me to question them just because some writers and tweeters were wrong with their " inside " information. It's the fans fault for allowing their selves to get suckered by those " insiders " , not the FO. There was 6 positional holes to be filled going into the off season. Did anyone realistically see the Sox filling all 6 of those voids? I sure as hell didn't. So far they have filled 3 of those 6 holes. Let's look at those 3 holes that are left SS, RF or OF and DH. The Sox rolling the dice with Saladino at SS is justifiable based on Saladino's defense and to serve as a potential place holder to Anderson for a season. DH, well we all know LaRoche isn't going anywhere and just have to accept that in retrospect, he was a bad signing. Sometimes FA signings just don't work out and the Sox aren't the only team this happens to. RF/OF, well, that's really what were talking about here and the Sox have actually acknowledged they are seeking an OF bat, preferably a LHB. The off season is not over, opening day has yet to arrive, so there's no reason for me to doubt they are indeed still seeking that upgrade for the OF. If the Sox fail to upgrade the OF before opening day, then you can bet I'll be unhappy about it but, I will still give the FO credit for adding Frazier/ Lawrie/ Avila/ Navarro/ Latos and re-signing Albers while moving on from duds such as Flowers/ Beckham/ Samardzija/ Soto etc. All I'm saying is that I'll withhold any criticisms I may potentially have until I see what the final 25 man roster looks like at the end of ST. Still plenty of time for the Sox to make upgrades and despite what some think, I feel the Sox have come a long way and I'm pretty excited about that.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 05:09 AM) Its a common procedure for thoracic outlet especially if they have an accessory 1st rib. I've seen stress reactions in ribs. They are rare. The couple I've seen are in Olympic caliber triathletes usually from an improper arrow position in biking. However, they are treated conservatively. I've never heard of any bone being removed for a stress reaction. In the most severe cases they do surgery to reinforce the bone like kevin white. This isn't an option for the rib due to the size and shape of the bone but removing it is really drastic. Holy cow! Thanks for the in-depth response, seriously, that's good insight right there and I appreciate it. Any idea as to what potential long term effects this may have for Frankie? Even though Frankie is no longer a part of the Sox organization, I still wish him the best and hope he can continue his dream of becoming an MLB pitcher. Everything I've read about him has indicated he's a really good guy and its saddening to hear of things like this happening to people like Frankie.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 07:49 AM) This is a good post. Agreed! Well said Dick Allen.

QUOTE (LDF @ Feb 13, 2016 -> 05:57 AM) you do make a point, but the team salary is now at 123 mil, and if they are on a strict spending budget, only the Fo will know about that, then it does go back to them as being frugal. and all the hoopla of trying to sign one of the big 3 was a farce, they may never have been that gun ho about getting one of those players, b/c of this money already being spent. But if they are on a strict spending budget, then wouldn't it make sense they are not being frugal due to lack of money? How much money did they spend on FA last year for players like Duke, Robertson, Melky, LaRoche and traded for Samardzija and his salary? Doesn't sound like a frugal team to me. Obviously, in hind sight, they didn't spend it wisely and that spending combined with lack of results on the field which hurt attendance hindered their financial flexibility this winter. As ss2k5 pointed out, its possible JR ok'd excess money to be spent on the right player such Cespedes or Gordon or possibly Upton but players like Desmond, Fowler and Jackson aren't near the caliper of the big three, whom would help much more in bringing fans to the park than Desmond, Fowler and Jackson. Also, Fowler and Desmond come with a comp pick attached which is a steep price for those caliper of players, depending on what they are asking for, which BTW we don't know at this time. Fans complain about the Sox being cheap despite their spending last off season and in the past. Fans complain about the Sox not signing players that apparently did not want to sign with the Sox. Fans complain about not signing FA's and yet complain about a few of last years FA signings that unfortunately did not perform up to expectations. Fans complain about how the Sox aren't a team that can rely on spending in the FA market and yet complain when they do. Fans complain about the Sox trading prospects to fill holes and yet have only given up two prospects over the last ten years that have amounted to anything. Fans complain when rumors the media doesnt come true despite knowing that it's a writers job to write in ordsr to sell newspapers, get internet clicks and ignoring that most writers are stating their personal opinions that fans take as gospel Fans complain when when they gets their hopes up based on an internet rumor and the rumor ends up being false. Bottom line, some fans just want to complain, period. No matter what the Sox FO does, fans are going to find something to complain about. It's pathetic.

I'll say if since nobody else has... Drugs are bad, MMMKAY!

Nice! If the Sox end up keeping that comp pick, that's a nice Chuck of change they can throw at their first two picks. As of right now, the '16 draft is supposed to have more depth so the extra money would be nice to have. We'll see how that plays out as the college and high school season's progress through spring. Now that I think about it, doesn't the college season begin next week?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 08:33 PM) That's really odd. I've never heard of removing a rib because of a stress reaction in it. That's a really drastic measure. Could it stem from his excess weight and the throwing motion that comes from being a pitcher or even a poor diet combined with weight training? I had never heard of such a thing from a pitcher and didn't know Beckett had this done. For anyone interested in Thoratic Outlet Syndrome: http://www.medicinenet.com/thoracic_outlet...ome/article.htm

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 04:42 PM) I don't necessarily feel that way. Everyone who is b****ing and moaning about Hahn seems to be upset because things are going to plan according to their own personal perspective. Pretty sure the Sox have a basic contract structure in mind on each individual player, and if the price and years intersect with their range, then they try to strike. Just because the fans want the Sox to sign player A doesn't mean Hahn is going to overextend to land that player. Whether it's a successful strategy in 2016, only time will tell. Well said sir! Too many fans made false assumptions, believed too much of what was being written as well as interpreting those writings into something they wanted to hear in hopes of their preconceived notions coming true. Now, its the front offices fault for being "cheap" despite the money they have spent as recently as last winter, which I admit, has hindered them to an extent this winter. Now we're back to the Sox don't have a "plan" nonsense, despite upgrading spots such as SP, C, 3B and 2B. Yep, that looks like a team without a plan to me. We all knew the Sox had numerous holes going into the off season and frankly, I'm surprised they have done as well as they have so far. Last I knew, opening day was April 4th and its only February 12th so theres still time for Hahn to acquire another bat. Just because things don't happen in the time frame some fans prefer doesn't mean they won't happen at all. I for one am excited to see what the current team is capable of and if they are able to add another bat, it will be that much better.

http://www.truebluela.com/2016/2/12/109823...gers-2-4-months I wish Frankie well in his recovery.

I like this trade alot for Milwaukee. The Brewers have added some really nice young talent since last summer. Too early to tell because Nottingham and Derby are so young but imo, the A's gave up some good talent for a guy like Davis. Aside from his power, Davis isn't really all that impressive. This is a solid trade for a rebuilding team like Milwaukee.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) Listen WAR follower... QUOTE (shipps @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 03:39 PM) WAR it isnt good for...absolutely nothing. Y'all are my favorite WAR hero's. Medal of Honor to you both!

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 09:13 AM) What 2nd half rebound. He hit .190 in July and .220 in September. He had a good May and a good August. Defensively his number of errors has increased each year over the last 3 seasons. I would be concerned as a SS he is on the decline. This is what I'm referring to when I say 1st half/2nd half. That's a huge difference. I don't deny his struggles offensively but with his history its certainly possible he could rebound. As far as defense, I've pointed out in the last that his numbers are just plain strange. According to BR his dWAR is +.9 and according to fangraphs his UZR is a -3.7 and yet his RngR is a +4.5 and for the season he had 9 throwing errors with 18 fielding errors. To me, it looks like his extended range becomes detrimental to his defense, somehow. I wish I had seen more Nat's games to get a better idea of how exactly the errors happened instead of relying on stats alone. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...ar=2015&t=b First or Second HalfDirect Link · Determined by All-Star Break · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · Export · PRE · LINK · ? Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+ 1st Half 84 83 348 323 36 68 17 1 7 24 5 2 17 99 .211 .255 .334 .589 108 4 3 3 2 0 7 .279 75 66 2nd Half 72 72 293 260 33 68 10 1 12 38 8 3 28 88 .262 .331 .446 .777 116 5 0 3 2 0 3 .346 130 111

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 08:46 AM) I would think most high schools have the prospects to trade for Bruce. QUOTE (shysocks @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) Yeah, I don't get the wording about prospects in these Bruce tweets. Cinci should be giving him away for free. No doubt guys. I don't see how Bruce is worth any valuable prospects. I see Bruce as more along the lines of possibly worth a mid-twenties flame throwing reliever that struggles with control and has yet to make it above AA.

Heyman "Reds believe orioles do have prospects to make a Bruce trade. O's also looking at fowler, alvarez. Likely to add 1 hitter." https://mobile.twitter.com/JonHeyman/status...986467390427136 Go ahead Orioles, trade for Bruce!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...0211-story.html Duquette also had a few comments on Fowler, though he would not say for sure he is interested in Fowler.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) Since 2012, Ian Desmond has the highest fWAR of all shortstops in baseball. And that is with his off year last year. Out of the three guys that you mention and Desmond here is how they rank according to fWAR in the last 4 years. Ian Desmond - 15.1 Yasiel Puig - 14.5 (Puig has only played 3 years so I took his career average for the 4th year) Dexter Fowler - 9.1 Nick Markakis - 5.4 Desmond has been significantly better than Fowler and Markakis. Puig would probably be more valuable this year but he also would cost the most by far to acquire and has severe character issues. I think a lot of people here seemed to be blinded by the one bad half of baseball that Desmond played last year. But truth be told he is one hell of a baseball player and has been one of the best shortstops in the game the past 4 years. You make some very good points. The way I se it is, if I'm OK with Frazier's hot start in '15 and his second half collapse, then I'm fine with Desmond's first half collapse and second half rebound. Adding Desmond wouldnt be the worst move the Sox could make. I'd take the gamble.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2016/02/12/d...-dexter-fowler/ Sure sounds as though Baltimore will sign Gallardo. I know its just a media report but here sure s alot of smoke to not only the Gallardo rumor but with the Fowler rumor as well.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/164329798/ia...apter-of-career Definitely sounds as though teams would prefer a multi-year deal as a gamble he bounces back, on the cheap, and the multi-years could help off-set the loss of a comp pick. I really think one of the biggest hangups for teams is giving up the comp pick for just one season because if Desmond doesn't bounce back, he won be worth the QO and the team loses their comp pick for good with no chance to recoup it. It's a gamble for both Desmond and the signing team. The Desmond rumors really have me curious as to what kind of contract he eventually signs.

I think a potential hangup in a Desmond deal is that teams could be looking to buy low by getting him on a short 2-3 year contract whereas Desmond could be looking for a 1 year contract to hopefully bounce back and recoup some of the money he passed on ( 7/100M+ with Nat's) by hitting FA next year. If he bounces back in '16, he'll easily be one of the most sought after fre agents next winter. This, to go along with the comp pick has probably led to some difficult negotiations for both sides.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 11, 2016 -> 09:27 PM) Ha I remember being pissed when it came out Fowler was more likely than the big 3. Now it would seem like a big addition. Yep. I didn't want much to do with Fowler or Jackson and now I would welcome them with open arms, just like good old Steve Perry! On the flip side, its that desperation that reminds me of just how bad the Sox could use an upgrade, any upgrade, in RF. Good grief I feel like a desperate Baseball prom date...

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 11, 2016 -> 09:14 PM) Just to add, I believe that environments exists for pitchers with the Sox. Agreed!

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 11, 2016 -> 09:12 PM) Good stuff but I will have enjoyed offseason more if they add another starting player. Kind of sick of the excuse of "they wanted to go back to their team". After a while, you need to create an environment where players want to come play for you. I still think the Sox will add another player, I'm just not sure who it will be. I still hold onto some hope for Jackson, but that's just my preference at this point. Winning ball games would certainly help create that environment but unfortunately they have not been doing so for quite sometime. I hate to say it but the south side is probably not very attractive from a free agents POV. I do find these rumors interesting in another way. Early in the off season when Desmond's name was first mentioned, many fans ( myself included) were staunchly against the idea. Look at us now.

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 11, 2016 -> 09:05 PM) Stop being rational and understanding how the process of the media works. When I read the above posts, all I can think about is this: Well played, Tony!

Meh, I take it all with a grain of salt until Desmond signs with a team. We read similar things about how Lawrie talks had stalled and then days later the trade was made and IIRC the same thing happened with Frazier. I'm not saying the Sox will or will not sign Desmond, just patiently waiting to see how it all plays out. For all we know, " that ship has sailed" , could mean Desmond signed with another team and it hasn't been announced yet. Point is, we don't know since there's nothing to confirm either way. I find the conflicting reports to very interesting though. It's the media, so lets not believe anything any of them have to say. If the Sox FO comes out and says something, THEN I'll believe it but until then its just some baseball rumors to talk about and its those rumors that help the off season fly by and get us to ST. Personally, I've enjoyed the hell out of this off season.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Feb 11, 2016 -> 06:18 PM) Just get all the reputed assholes! Team would certainly be a lot more fun, win or lose. In that case, forget Desmond and trade for Jose Reyes.