shysocks

QUOTE (JRL @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:38 PM) I have to disagree on how likely a Laroche bounceback is though. I think theres some small chance, and once your paying him $10 mil to go away, doesn't pay not to eat 2 mil extra and hold out for that small chance that he does rebound, and if not just DFA him. But, Laroche is 36. A decline due to age completely makes sense. We're not in the steroid era anymore where players all of a sudden "magically" maintain their primes through their late 30s and even in to their 40s. Especially since I don't remember seeing anything about any injury that you refer to as heavily contributing to his awful performance, certainly nothing terribly significant. I agree that if LaRoche is here he should NEVER be playing vs lefties, but the problem was Trayce would have been his natural platoon partner and he's gone (not that I mind trading him, as long as we're not done yet after acquiring Frazier). Welcome to Soxtalk! The LaRoche injury stuff is from the very end of this blog post, which was written right around the time he really started to go into the tank. I believe injury played some role in his bad season, but with reports coming out of the Sox trying so hard to dump him on the Pirates, maybe the role isn't as large as I once thought.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:11 PM) Sure, but we don't know what the White Sox internal cap is, right? The idea that the White Sox can't afford a player is silly. We don't know what Reinsdorf is or isn't willing to spend if Hahn wants to spend it. With a salary cap, I get being worried about "well we already have this and this guy signed, so we can't afford another", but in baseball, Jerry's internal cap could be $110 million or $130 million. We don't know. Regardless, no one here has reason to suggest that the White Sox can't afford a guy if they want him. I agree with most of this, but this conveys a different message than the word infinite in super-big letters. I'll leave it at that.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) You're completely missing the point. The point is, don't worry about "overpaying" one guy. It's one guy. Go for it or don't. I'm not missing the point at all. I extended the analogy to overpaying for two guys, and you said "Fine, do it." I want to spend on an outfielder too, but the point is that teams have a finite amount of money to spend despite the salary cap of $Infinity. Do you disagree, or is that not the point?

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) If they want to pay it, go right ahead and don't worry about overpaying. It's not that big of a deal. LOL sure thing man. Let's sign EVERY free agent, what could possibly go wrong? Can't tell if you're trolling or you don't understand how money works.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) I like Alex Gordon on a 4/5 year deal (4 ideally) for a more reasonable dollar amount. His bat is solid, he gets on base and plays above average defense all while batting left handed Cespedes on base percentage scares me, and the contract length for Upton scares me as he will likely require a 6-8 year deal The lefty thing is one reason I'd prefer Gordon. His age is a drawback, but slap him into the lineup and it's got a little more balance to it. Eaton Cabrera Abreu Frazier ??? Lawrie LaRoche Avila/Navarro Saladino/Sanchez

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:51 PM) If the White Sox want a FA outfielder "not being able to afford it" isn't going to stop them. Period. Reinsdorf has the money. Extend that - what if they want to sign Cespedes and Upton. No salary cap, Reinsdorf has the money, should be easy, right?

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:47 PM) Are you sure you watched baseball? Everybody knows what Trayce and Micah were. Trayce was a guy with a big name and Micah was kind of a disappointment. and for the 400th time Major League Baseball Salary Cap Infinite Dollars You overstate your No Salary Cap point. Teams operate within very real budget constraints whether there's a hard cap or not, I'm not sure why you pretend otherwise.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) The only reason why I don't like this forum is because people b**** and moan about literally EVERYTHING!!! Can we let the season happen first and then come to a conclusion? Please? Shut it down til October, boys.

Gimme Gordon.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) I think that a lot of people share their initial reactions before allowing some time to think about it and let other posts influence how they feel. I learned about the trade about an hour after it happened, and as I read the initial posts my feeling was that "I hope we didn't just trade all 3 of those guys for just Frazier..." As a fan, I was excited to see if TT could stick in our outfield, and to see if Montas could help the back end of our bullpen. Micah Johnson I wasn't excited about. Losing those "exciting" things hurts, initially. And then, add the idea that worries me along with several other posters, that Frazier will struggle in the AL, and right away it seems like we paid too much. I was about ready to post as such. But I kept reading the thread and thoughts others have shared. The fact that we didn't have to trade Anderson or Fulmer. The significant detractors of the 3 prospects we traded. Frazier is a power hitter that this lineup desperately needs while also being above average defensively. Initially, I was kind of upset, but with most trades that happen, after the initial feelings a general contentedness settles in and I feel better. However, I absolutely agree that if you want to contend, you need to upgrade RF or LF, or both. Avi carries considerable risk as a starting OF for us. Our team is going to be much better off with Avi in AAA being a depth piece for us should one of our starting OFs get injured. Great post. It's easy to get swept away when a big move goes down. My excitement is just tempered because we got burned last year, and I'm trying to resist the temptation to s*** on the guys we just sent away. I was never a Micah fan but I think Montas is a useful major leaguer and Trayce is a niche one.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) He's an all star. We have someone to root for in home run derby. Meanwhile, the team and org. got worse. The Sox had stabilized 3B. The weaknesses were OF defense and a mediocre bullpen. So what did they do? Traded a OF who plays impeccable D and hit nearly .900 OPS. Brilliant! They traded a pitcher who could have been an actual stopper, of which there is exactly one. They cry about lack of hitting, so they traded an IF who can hit!!!! Oh, and they crowded out yet another young IF. 2B wasn't an issue. We had great D there from a YOUNG player (which, I know, is a negative on the Sox). This org's disdain for young players is beyond belief. The irony of course is that at least 2 of those guys, if not all 3, will make the 92 win Dodgers 25 man. But they weren't good enough for the 25 man of Robbie and Cooper's 76 win Sox. Come on man, this is so intellectually dishonest. Trayce is not a .900 OPS guy.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) And after the upcoming draft, we will have three prospects that should be top 15 off the bat. Right now I'd rather have two of those three guys and a guy named Gordon or Upton. ...Not Gordon Beckham. Not Melvin Upton.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:21 PM) Here's a quickly found thread on Ivan Nova. QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 12:49 PM) That article doesn't even say that the White Sox are interested. Just that they have been in the past. It's all speculative. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, gimme option C: I'll Tell Ya Later Right now I honestly believe what we gave up was fair.

The reaction to the trade here is overwhelmingly positive. Those complaining about HOW NEGATIVE EVERYONE IS BEING are suffering confirmation bias or something.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:06 PM) They are still a team that can catch fire because they have starting pitching in spades, but can easily wallow because Sale/Q/Rodon won't get any run support and everything collapses. Losing Samardzija is still probably the best move of this offseason. You seem pretty convinced that Frazier will tank and that's your right, but I think it's safe to say that those three guys are gonna get more run support with Frazier/Lawrie than Lawrie/Sanchez.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) It's OK to have mediocre catchers if the rest of the lineup is good. It's even OK to have a SS with limited offensive ability if the rest of the lineup is good. It's not OK to have a corner OF who can't do anything well, and another who needs roids to be an above-average player. You can't have all of the above, plus a DH who is just cashing a check before he goes back down south to live out his Duck Dynasty fantasy. The Sox are roughly the same team they were yesterday. This I don't agree with. The Sox are better than they were yesterday. They just need to stick the landing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 12:51 PM) Except we didn't really trade "the future". We traded flawed players that needed a lot to go right to be "the future". The Future is still here in Anderson, Fulmer, and Adams. Yo're right. I just typed "future" as shorthand. Some people held the opinions being expressed at high volumes in this thread weeks ago, and credit to them. I will just say that I bet if we had polled the board on Montas, Micah, and Trayce three hours ago, the result would have been a lot different than it looks now. It is common practice to minimize the talent of the players your team trades away. Once again: In a vacuum, fair trade. If we're done, I don't like it. If we get an outfielder, I like it.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 12:42 PM) That described 2/3 of the teams in MLB. The 2nd WC makes a big difference. For once perhaps some guys exceed expectations. I know it's a stretch but what if Avi isn't really a 0 WAR player? Stranger things have happened. Is it likely? No, but you don't just wait around for the perfect storm to try and build a monster club. The Cubs did it but it's not f***ing easy and most teams are in the same boat the Sox are. The likelihood is the key part of the equation though. If you're gonna trade future for present, you have to be confident that the result will be reasonably likely to make the postseason. In my mind, the Sox are not at that level. If they fix Avi's slot, they'll be closer, and then I'll find the Frazier trade more acceptable. In a vaccum, we got a good return for some pieces I'll miss a little. It's not a vacuum.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 12:32 PM) LOL, why? We gave up next to nothing for an excellent middle of the order 3B with plus D. Because we'd be caught in the middle. The team's not good enough to compete with Avi in the outfield. I also strongly disagree with the "next to nothing" characterization. I think what we gave up was pretty fair, but Montas is a good prospect, even if he's just a reliever. We've seen what good relievers can get in a trade.

It needs to be repeated every four posts or so, because it's that important: If this is not followed by the acquisition of a good outfielder, it is a horrible trade.

HANG ON YOU GUYS: What was Todd Frazier's OPS in the second half last year? I haven't seen anybody mention it.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 11:57 AM) Melky seemed to be getting it together as the season progressed. One of the best memories this season is that big July winning streak where we'd put up 7-10 runs per game and Melky went 18-35. Yeah but his season thudded after that. I don't think he proved anything. wRC+ by month: 70 39 93 175 95 80

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) And if the Sox tank this year, they have a valuable trade chip. People act like he is a FAafter the year. Unless Frazier's the one to fall apart. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 11:55 AM) CF Eaton LF Cabrera 1b Abreu RF Upton 3B Frazier DH LaRoche 2b Lawrie C Navarro/Avila SS Sanchez I could be down with that lineup If Melky gets his s*** together that is swoon-worthy.