When I hear "tear it up" I hear trade Sale, Q, and all other vets on expiring contracts within the next two years. So what is YOUR plan then since I have seemingly misunderstood? Who specifically are you trading and what players are you getting back?

Lol - well, since I am neither Rick Hahn nor Kenny Williams, I'm not specifically trading anyone. They are! What I will tell you is that the teams the Sox were rumored to be talking with at the trade deadline and the names that were being bandied about as potential returns for our prized assets were right in line with what I would hope and expect. The fact the team pulled back and decided to wait until this offseason because they think they can do even better than some of those proposals we heard and read about in late July has me more excited for this particular offseason than I've been in a long time.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/sale-it...consider-trade/

 

Sox might be targeting young starting pitchers and relievers for Sale...

That's just some former executive's opinion on what they should do. If the Sox were to deal Sale, they'd still have Quintana (if not traded as well) & Rodon in the rotation for the next 4 & 5 years respectively. They'd also have a collection of former 1st & 2nd round picks in Fulmer, Burdi, Adams, & Hansen in high A and above. I'd want at least one high-end pitching prospect in any deal, but the focus should be on position players, which is what makes the Red Sox so attractive.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/sale-it...consider-trade/

 

Sox might be targeting young starting pitchers and relievers for Sale...

So let me get this straight. They would consider a Sale trade largely built around a high profile pitching prospect (i.e. Glasnow, Giolito) in hopes that guy can eventually turn into Chris Sale-lite? Better be getting a high profile MLB ready catcher or CF in return as well otherwise that does nothing to improve the team over the next 5 years. I'm not trading Sale for one big time SP prospect and a bunch of B level prospect position players and relievers. That's terrible.

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

So let me get this straight. They would consider a Sale trade largely built around a high profile pitching prospect (i.e. Glasnow, Giolito) in hopes that guy can eventually turn into Chris Sale-lite? Better be getting a high profile MLB ready catcher or CF in return as well otherwise that does nothing to improve the team over the next 5 years. I'm not trading Sale for one big time SP prospect and a bunch of B level prospect position players and relievers. That's terrible.

How did you jump to this conclusion? Nothing in that article suggests the White Sox would accept a deal built around one high-profile pitching prospect for Sale. Did you even read the article?

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by Chicago White Sox

Yes, I'd easily take a package built around those two. I'd also like Kopech and a few other prospects, but there's no doubt I'd make that type of deal. And IMO, the Red Sox really might consider doing it depending on how their pitching does in the playoffs. Pomeranz has been a disappointment so far and other than Price, I'm not sure they have a starter with elite stuff that you'd like in October.

 

And as great as Moncada & Benintendi are as prospects (and they're great), they're somewhat expendable for Boston. They still have Devers in the pipeline for 3B and could sign a free agent OF to replace Andrew. Throw in the fact that the Yankees could be major players for Sale and I could see the Red Sox being very interested this offseason.

 

Well Porcello is their #1 and he probably wins Cy Young. Pomeranz is their 5th starter so he is not a factor in post-season. I think the emergence of Rodriquez the last 2 months as well as how well Buchholz is pitching means they will go 2nd tier offseason and keep their top prospects. Regardless, there is no way I trade sale for a very good prospect who is out for the year w a knee injury and Moncada who really needs a year in AAA since he is struggling offensively and defensively. maybe that is because he skipped AAA but he is a concern right now for them.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/09/heym...l-saunders.html

 

The comments here about Quintana are f***ing hilarious.

 

One person says the Dodgers would never give up a package of Urias, Thompson and Grandal for Quintana because "he's not worth it" lmao

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/09/heym...l-saunders.html

 

The comments here about Quintana are f***ing hilarious.

 

One person says the Dodgers would never give up a package of Urias, Thompson and Grandal for Quintana because "he's not worth it" lmao

 

To be fair I am certain they read some of our trade talk here involving them and thinks its hilarious too.

http://dawindycity.com/2015/06/10/cubs-sta...happ-selection/

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-cubs/sha...plications-cubs

 

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-cubs/pas...&yptr=yahoo

 

 

It's interesting the Cubs and White Sox have almost opposite philosophies.

 

The Cubs under Epstein have always believed everyday position players are safer bets than pitching phenoms because of the additional injury risk (as well as the belief they make more impact over a full season)...and, finally, that they could trade their excess depth for pitching when the time came.

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by caulfield12

To be fair I am certain they read some of our trade talk here involving them and thinks its hilarious too.

 

I don't think they would trade Seager straight up for Sale right now...

I don't think they would trade Seager straight up for Sale right now...

 

B/c Seager is a legitimate MVP candidate and infinitely more valuable

B/c Seager is a legitimate MVP candidate and infinitely more valuable

 

And controlled for what, 6 more years while Sale is 3 and Quintana 4m

Just saying we had some Seager, DeLeon/Urias, Pederson for Sale trade proposals a year ago that were being thrown out at SoxTalk.

 

A lot can change in the course of less than a year. Which is why underlying this whole blockbuster trade idea is the inherent fear one of the Big 3 pitchers will go down with an injury and abort the whole process...and/or force the trading of the other two for less than fair value.

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by caulfield12

So let me get this straight. They would consider a Sale trade largely built around a high profile pitching prospect (i.e. Glasnow, Giolito) in hopes that guy can eventually turn into Chris Sale-lite? Better be getting a high profile MLB ready catcher or CF in return as well otherwise that does nothing to improve the team over the next 5 years. I'm not trading Sale for one big time SP prospect and a bunch of B level prospect position players and relievers. That's terrible.

Nah, what's terrible is thinking that simply adding Matt Wieters, Edinson Volquez, Dexter Fowler and Mitch Moreland to this lousy roster would somehow transform it into a contender. THAT would be terrible!

B/c Seager is a legitimate MVP candidate and infinitely more valuable

 

 

Exactly. They need to acquire the future MVP candidate that is currently in the minors whoever that may be. They need to identify guys and they need to be right.

Exactly. They need to acquire the future MVP candidate that is currently in the minors whoever that may be. They need to identify guys and they need to be right.

Matt Davidson and Avi Garcia should be red flags in regards to anyone thinking these guys are better at identifying minor league talent.

Matt Davidson and Avi Garcia should be red flags in regards to anyone thinking these guys are better at identifying minor league talent.

 

 

I agree. I'm just saying though. It is unrealistic to acquire top notch position players like Betts who are already in the majors. He has more value than Chris Sale does. They will need to acquire prospects but they need to be correct on which ones to acquire.

How did you jump to this conclusion? Nothing in that article suggests the White Sox would accept a deal built around one high-profile pitching prospect for Sale. Did you even read the article?

Actually I did read the article, did you?

 

As stated in the article:

Position players can be acquired more easily through free agency or trades involving lesser players, he said, so “you’ve got to get huge-upside, young, controllable pitching if you trade a once-in-20-years pitcher like Sale.’’

Matt Davidson and Avi Garcia should be red flags in regards to anyone thinking these guys are better at identifying minor league talent.

 

Adam Eaton turned out alright...

Matt Davidson and Avi Garcia should be red flags in regards to anyone thinking these guys are better at identifying minor league talent.

Don't forget future middle of the rotation starter Nestor Molina! Check out these Kenny quotes from 2011. In his eyes they already tried "rebuilding" back in 2011-2012:

 

http://www.espn.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id...s-nestor-molina

 

I think this is the same type of "rebuilding" that can be expected this offseason, which is why I predict their first move is to trade David Robertson.

I have argued elsewhere that I don't think it is either necessary, nor realistic to try to fill all of the holes with top tier talent. Fix the bullpen with one more solid LH reliever, fill the void of a middle of the order LH bat and make sure that the first 6 hitters in the lineup are very productive. The bottom third of the lineup could consists of good defensive players, who are not "black holes" on offense. Guys like Saladino, or Lawrie, the catcher and one more hitter, can fill the bottom of the order. That third player could be Anderson, unless he keeps up his current pace, which would put him somewhere further up in the order.

 

There are few teams which have good offensive players at every position. If the top 2/3 of the order produces enough, that would be sufficient, with a good defense, great starters and a dominant bullpen. So how do you improve the top 2/3 of this offense? Barring any trades, which would subtract from the current roster, we have the following guys who fit into that top 2/3 of the order:

 

Eaton

Melky

Abreu

Frazier

 

Add a potent LH hitting, middle of the order bat, and one more significant offensive contributor (again, that could be Anderson) and the Sox could have a productive offense. Trading away one of the two best starters only creates a huge hole in the key area of starting pitching. If they are really going to "go for it" again next year, they probably can't afford to trade either of Sale or Quintana and may not need to. If you really think that they need to fill all the offensive holes with really good players, they probably aren't ready to compete, and need to rebuild. In that scenario, sure, you could consider trading one of the two top starters.

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by Lillian

I have argued elsewhere that I don't think it is either necessary, nor realistic to try to fill all of the holes with top tier talent. Fix the bullpen with one more solid LH reliever, fill the void of a middle of the order LH bat and make sure that the first 6 hitters in the lineup are very productive. The bottom third of the lineup could consists of good defensive players, who are not "black holes" on offense. Guys like Saladino, or Lawrie, the catcher and one more hitter, can fill the bottom of the order. That third player could be Anderson, unless he keeps up his current pace, which would put him somewhere further up in the order.

 

There are few teams which have good offensive players at every position. If the top 2/3 of the order produces enough, that would be sufficient, with a good defense, great starters and a dominant bullpen. So how do you improve the top 2/3 of this offense? Barring any trades, which would subtract from the current roster, we have the following guys who fit into that top 2/3 of the order:

 

Eaton

Melky

Abreu

Frazier

 

Add a potent LH hitting, middle of the order bat, and one more significant offensive contributor and the Sox could have a productive offense. Trading away one of the two best starters only creates a huge hole in the key area of starting pitching. If they are really going to "go for it" again next year, they probably can't afford to trade either of Sale or Quintana and may not need to. If you really think that they need to fill all the offensive holes with really good players, they aren't really ready to compete, and need to rebuild. In that scenario, sure, you could consider trading one of the two top starters.

Agreed!

Sure, two potent bats in the middle of the order would make a huge difference. Now, how are they going to get them?

Look at the list of FA left-handed hitters. There are more question marks than hitters you could reliably count on.

Alvarez, Beltran, Bruce, Moreland, Saunders, Moss, Rasmus...

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2016...ree-agents.html

 

Votto, Blackmon, CarGo....all would cost Fulmer at a minimum.

Edited September 9, 20169 yr by caulfield12

Don't forget future middle of the rotation starter Nestor Molina! Check out these Kenny quotes from 2011. In his eyes they already tried "rebuilding" back in 2011-2012:

 

http://www.espn.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id...s-nestor-molina

 

I think this is the same type of "rebuilding" that can be expected this offseason, which is why I predict their first move is to trade David Robertson.

 

Well, they hit 2/3 in the Cuban market...Alexei and Abreu vs. Viciedo.

Actually I did read the article, did you?

 

As stated in the article:

Position players can be acquired more easily through free agency or trades involving lesser players, he said, so “you’ve got to get huge-upside, young, controllable pitching if you trade a once-in-20-years pitcher like Sale.’’

That's the opinion of a former executive, not from anyone within the White Sox organization. But thanks for proving my point with some much needed snark!