Mets also made the playoffs. The White Sox won't be anywhere near in 2018.

 

Yep they were an exciting team with a lot of exposure and IIRC, the deal he took was worth more over first few years than others offered. Instead of using Cespedes as an example, JUpton is a better one.

Yep they were an exciting team with a lot of exposure and IIRC, the deal he took was worth more over first few years than others offered. Instead of using Cespedes as an example, JUpton is a better one.

And he re-negotiated. It isn't obvious he would have been paid more elsewhere.

 

JR has to go at this like he did with Albert Belle. He asked what it would take, Belle's camp told him, he said OK. At this point players>money.

NY is a much bigger media market, and the Cubs completely own Chicago right now.

 

This is more of a move you see when the results on the field push the window of competition up by one year...but a Heyward or Machado type doesn’t start the bandwagon, they join one that has already demonstrated a certain amount of success to push them over the top. (The same principle the M’s we’re trying to follow with Cano/Cruz, but they seemingly jumped the gun. In retrospect, their younger core players weren’t ready, and weren’t deep enough...especially with Felix fading.)

 

IMO, it would make more sense if we knew we could rely on Rodon at all.

Edited December 15, 20178 yr by caulfield12

If they aren't prepared to offer him the most cash, you have to admit the prospect he would be with the White Sox long term is minuscule, whether he goes to lunch with Ricky Renteria every day in 2018 or not.

To me this is saying we will be willing to at least match anything somebody else is willing to give.

NY is a much bigger media market, and the Cubs completely own Chicago right now.

 

This is more of a move you see when the results on the field push the window of competition up by one year...but a Heyward or Machado type doesn’t start the bandwagon, they join one that has already demonstrated a certain amount of success to push them over the top. (The same principle the M’s we’re trying to follow with Cano/Cruz, but they seemingly jumped the gun. In retrospect, their younger core players weren’t ready, and weren’t deep enough...especially with Felix fading.)

 

IMO, it would make more sense if we knew we could rely on Rodon at all.

 

There's not a single reliable pitcher on this roster right now. Could possibly have the most unstable starting/relief group in the majors at this moment. But don't worry, I'm sure Manny will love the culture on a team that blows leads late due to its minor league bullpen

To me this is saying we will be willing to at least match anything somebody else is willing to give.

 

Yeah and then hope his year here puts them over the top.

There's not a single reliable pitcher on this roster right now. Could possibly have the most unstable starting/relief group in the majors at this moment. But don't worry, I'm sure Manny will love the culture on a team that blows leads late due to its minor league bullpen

 

Well then for all the hopeful people who automatically write him into their 2019 dream lineup, I guess they have no hope either then.

Edited December 15, 20178 yr by soxfan2014

Well then for all the hopeful people who automatically write him into their 2019 dream lineup, I guess they have no hope either then.

 

Some people on here want them to be bad until their lives are over.

Well then for all the hopeful people who automatically write him into their 2019 dream lineup, I guess they have no hope either then.

 

Sure if the Sox want to pay top dollar. Stanton to the Yanks was bad for the WSox as it made Machado more likely for them instead of Harper.

Some people on here want them to be bad until their lives are over.

No I think people don't wanna see all the work towards the rebuild be wasted on a trade for a guy who leaves next year anyway. I totally get how they feel. But if we are offering Avi and other guys who aren't projected in our contention window its totally worth it. We shouldn't risk significantly damaging our rebuild for a "chance" at signing a guy. But I think there is a price that is worth it to bring him in.

Sure if the Sox want to pay top dollar. Stanton to the Yanks was bad for the WSox as it made Machado more likely for them instead of Harper.

 

We're talking about if the Sox matched the top offer (or even went over) and then tried to sell him on other reasons (culture). You're arguing he wouldn't accept due to a s*** record and awful bullpen yet if he is a free agent and had no experience here, he suddenly wouldn't see that?

Edited December 15, 20178 yr by soxfan2014

If they make this deal -- whether or not it includes prospects or veterans, or if it makes sense or doesn't -- the Sox MUST be willing to offer him $400mm within the next couple months. Because the ONLY way he would EVER sign an extension in his walk year is if he thinks it's for more money than he can get on the open market.

 

Even if he comes here and loves it, he loses nothing by waiting until free agency and seeing what other offers are there, which at the bare minimum drives the Sox price to market.

We're talking about if the Sox matched the top offer (or even went over) and then tried to sell him on other reasons (culture). You're arguing he wouldn't accept due to a s*** record and awful bullpen yet if he is a free agent and had no experience here, he suddenly wouldn't see that?

If we think "culture" might matter, then how do we know ours is the culture he might like? I think money will matter and pay him the most and he'll come here, but that means I think culture doesn't matter.

 

For those who think it does...they have to prove that he'll be 110% happy on a losing, kid-loaded team where occasionally the starter gives up 9 runs because he's a rookie or the bullpen rookies blow 6 games in a row. If you believe "The culture thing" will matter, that's the downside risk. People think our culture will somehow be a big selling point, but there's just as much reason to worry.

 

Just pay the guy.

I like discussing this as we have nothing else to talk about right now but holy hell please make a decision already, O's. We're all just repeating ourselves.

Edited December 15, 20178 yr by soxfan2014

If we think "culture" might matter, then how do we know ours is the culture he might like? I think money will matter and pay him the most and he'll come here, but that means I think culture doesn't matter.

 

For those who think it does...they have to prove that he'll be 110% happy on a losing, kid-loaded team where occasionally the starter gives up 9 runs because he's a rookie or the bullpen rookies blow 6 games in a row. If you believe "The culture thing" will matter, that's the downside risk. People think our culture will somehow be a big selling point, but there's just as much reason to worry.

 

Just pay the guy.

 

And Manny isn't exactly the most jovial of players

Does Machado not like the culture in Baltimore?

So keeping your prospects and offering him the most cash next offseason is something that won't work?

 

Machado without doubt, knows a lot of players who either play with the White Sox or have played for the White Sox. He will have an idea about "the culture" if he doesn't play in Chicago in 2018, and the White Sox try to sign him.

There are other teams that plan on offering him the most cash as well. He’s going to be one of the most desired free agents in baseball history. I can’t believe you think it’s as simple as offering the most money when the Yankees & Dodgers will be involved. There will be multiple teams that likely end up in the same basic range by the end of the process. Again, his decision will likely come down to non-financial considerations. Our best bet of landing Machado is to form a bond with the player (this is more than just culture) and then be prepared to match any offer he receives. If we go in without that benefit, landing him is going to be an uphill battle.

Does Machado not like the culture in Baltimore?

 

His best friends in baseball are Schoop, Jon Jay, Yonder Alonso and Almora. Let's just sign Jay and Alonso (to be honest, they would both fit roles)

There are other teams that plan on offering him the most cash as well. He’s going to be one of the most desired free agents in baseball history. I can’t believe you think it’s as simple as offering the most money when the Yankees & Dodgers will be involved. There will be multiple teams that likely end up in the same basic range by the end of the process. Again, his decision will likely come down to non-financial considerations. Our best bet of landing Machado is to form a bond with the player (this is more than just culture) and then be prepared to match any offer he receives. If we go in without that benefit, landing him is going to be an uphill battle.

Really, the Dodgers, with Turner at 3b and Seager at SS, are going to be after him? Seriously, where would he play?

There are other teams that plan on offering him the most cash as well. He’s going to be one of the most desired free agents in baseball history. I can’t believe you think it’s as simple as offering the most money when the Yankees & Dodgers will be involved. There will be multiple teams that likely end up in the same basic range by the end of the process. Again, his decision will likely come down to non-financial considerations. Our best bet of landing Machado is to form a bond with the player (this is more than just culture) and then be prepared to match any offer he receives. If we go in without that benefit, landing him is going to be an uphill battle.

I can't believe you think having him play a non competitive season for the team will help the White Sox cause.

 

The Dodgers have Seager and Turner at SS and 3B. The Yankees may or may not be in the market for a 3B next season.

 

If the White Sox want to sign the player, they are going to have to offer him the most attractive deal. He can talk to Ricky Renteria during negotiations. They can put together a presentation.

Some people on here want them to be bad until their lives are over.

Some people on here want to swim in an Olympic sized swimming pool filled with mashed potatoes and gravy.

Really, the Dodgers, with Turner at 3b and Seager at SS, are going to be after him? Seriously, where would he play?

 

Hypothetically they could move Seager to 2B. Really would not put that past the Dodgers.

Edited December 15, 20178 yr by soxfan2014

Hypothetically they could move Seager to 2B. Really would not put that past the Dodgers.

I think the Dodgers would be more inclined to go after Harper.

I think the Dodgers would be more inclined to go after Harper.

 

Didn't you hear that he's already signing with the Cubs because he's friend with Bryant, owns a Bulls hat, and has a dog named Wrigley?/green

If they aren't prepared to offer him the most cash, you have to admit the prospect he would be with the White Sox long term is minuscule, whether he goes to lunch with Ricky Renteria every day in 2018 or not.

This I agree with. They have to be prepared to match any offer or at least offer fair market value like bmags implies (say $350M). If they’re expecting a discount they shouldn’t waste their time & prospects. I don’t believe they’re expecting a discount though.