1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

But the Sox need to trade Jose more than Avi.

Need to trade both to be honest, but seems they'd push to move Avi first.

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 This is a rebuilding year, Giolito is a project and results don't really matter. Growing pains were expected. This was always going to be a hard year to watch, unless Lopez/Gio/Moncada took off out of the gate and they didn't look back,

It was and is a team rebuilding year; but you still need to see some micro building, i.e. some individual players making progress.  That 3 top prospect pitchers have basically hit a wall once they hit the majors (I guess Lopez has been okay) is concerning.
 

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Giolito has some of the worst metrics you will see for a starting pitcher on July 2nd. He'd be in AAA for probably 27 teams. Posters are definitely not too hard on him.

If you realize that he's working through another mechanical change since spring training, then yeah, they are. He's going to get lit up this year. Once I saw him walking guys like this, flying all over the place, etc.  As long as he's making progress I really don't care about results, and the Sox probably don't either. That's all that matters. If you're looking at results, you're looking at the wrong thing with him. My complaint isn't that everyone think that Giolito sucks it is just that Lopez is right there with him in terms of poor metrics. and you get people talking about him like he's a future ace of the staff. Lopez has the worst metrics as a whole out any qualifed starter in MLB, and people talk about him like he's a demigod.  I'm just asking for consistency. If you're shitting on Giolito, you gotta shit on Lopez too. 

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Need to trade both to be honest, but seems they'd push to move Avi first.

Avi's younger, and, frankly, makes more sense to extend a few years, imo.  and I think the Sox would still get more for Abreu.

And Avi's less likely to regress waiting a year to trade him; and in a year, his replacement may be ready.

Edited July 4, 20187 yr by GreenSox

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I mean you'd change your mind about a piece of steak each bite depending on if you got the marble or the gristle.

Occasionally I go off the rails and let my negativity come out. It shows inconsistency, yeah, but I have more optimism than pessimism. I'm just trying to change my approach to life in general. If you ever read the Filibuster you'd know that I have Autism and I struggle with black and white thinking. It's either all good or hopeless. It sucks. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

If you realize that he's working through another mechanical change since spring training, then yeah, they are. He's going to get lit up this year. Once I saw him walking guys like this, flying all over the place, etc.  As long as he's making progress I really don't care about results, and the Sox probably don't either. That's all that matters. If you're looking at results, you're looking at the wrong thing with him. My complaint isn't that everyone think that Giolito sucks it is just that Lopez is right there with him in terms of poor metrics. and you get people talking about him like he's a future ace of the staff. Lopez has the worst metrics as a whole out any qualifed starter in MLB, and people talk about him like he's a demigod.  I'm just asking for consistency. If you're shitting on Giolito, you gotta shit on Lopez too. 

I didn't bother looking at Sale because he's a cheat code anyway, but found it interesting that the last 2 pitchers we called up aggressively to develop, Quintana and Danks, both got progressively worse during their rookie season (5.01 ERA for Quintana in his 2nd half, 7.11 for Danks) and then they both snapped forwards the next year.

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

.  I'm just asking for consistency. If you're shitting on Giolito, you gotta shit on Lopez too. 

What the hell metrics are you talking about?

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

Avi's younger, and, frankly, makes more sense to extend a few years, imo.  and I think the Sox would still get more for Abreu.

With what guys got on the free agent market this offseason, I don't see any reason why we should rush into extending a guy like that. He might be available on the same kind of deal Moustakas got this year.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

With what guys got on the free agent market this offseason, I don't see any reason why we should rush into extending a guy like that. He might be available on the same kind of deal Moustakas got this year.

I think they still have a year with Avi to make that decision, right?  They can hold him for a year - trade value might actually improve if he rakes, which he might.

4 minutes ago, Hatchetman said:

What the hell metrics are you talking about?

He has the highest xFIP out of any qualified starter in MLB. He gives up tons of hits, strikes hitters out at the same rate as a soft tossing lefty, and gives up tons of hard contact. 

Edited July 4, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

He's still miles ahead of Giolito on any metric you want to cite.

28 minutes ago, fathom said:

Contenders should want him more than Jose

You guys are so mean. Two years in a row now, whenever Avi does something good in a game thread somebody has to post something like "good, he'll be easier to trade now." Saddens me. Hail Avi!

Just now, Hatchetman said:

He's still miles ahead of Giolito on any metric you want to cite.

Lopez is, but they're both bad, and that is my point. 

 

Palka turns 27 in October. He looks like the real deal. Why no threads about flipping him, yet?

I don't give a hoot if I ever see the guy pitch again. He should be pitching in the minors and he gets all this silly attention. ??? 

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Palka turns 27 in October. He looks like the real deal. Why no threads about flipping him, yet?

Six more seasons of control. Oh wait, this is greg.

6 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I think they still have a year with Avi to make that decision, right?  They can hold him for a year - trade value might actually improve if he rakes, which he might.

Yes they have him under control for next year if they want him, but as noted in the trade deadline thread - right now teams that are buying have realized that there are so many rebuilding teams that they have no reason to pay high prices on the trade market either. If they need a bat, bats are available for low costs.

WOo we get to see Rondon.

Bruce Rondon or tee-ball. Tough choice. 

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Six more seasons of control. Oh wait, this is greg.

I can't wait to see which ballplayers you guys approve of getting a real multi year contract from the Sox someday. From my vantage point, it's Machado or Harper and that's it. You guys are good protectors of Jerry's wallet. Heaven forbid we pay Avi or Abreu someday. Do you guys act like this with the Bears or Blackhawks or Bulls as well or does the salary cap make you less contract stingy?

Edited July 4, 20187 yr by greg775

Let's go Rondon don't implode.

12 minutes ago, pcq said:

I don't give a hoot if I ever see the guy pitch again. He should be pitching in the minors and he gets all this silly attention. ??? 

The bottom line is, I really don't care about Giolito getting lit up in a lost season when he's working out the kinks. 2019 is a different story, and if he's not performing by the ASB next year it is ok to write him off at that point. I'd rather give him as much time as they can to figure things out in the Sox organization before they use the option and then have to DFA him if it comes to that. They have that luxury, so why not use it? If he doesn't figure it out here, I don't think he ever will.  Sending him to AAA now just shortens the window for the Sox to see if they can fix him. They need to give him as much time as they can to see if the light turns on. 

Edited July 4, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

30 minutes ago, fathom said:

Need to trade both to be honest, but seems they'd push to move Avi first.

No we need to keep both. You need veterans to blend with the youth to make a contender 

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Let's go Rondon don't implode.

He survived even though two got on base.  I assume now Ricky thinks he can perform in the clutch 

Wild pitch offense anyone ?