27 minutes ago, Tony said:

If he pitched with discomfort and didn't tell anyone in his last start, the anger should be directed at Kopech, not the FO. 

I don't think anyone should be angry at all. Don't direct anger at anyone, It's just so reactionary and judgmental . We have no idea why it happened . It just did.Pitching a baseball is highly stressful on the arm . Throwing over hand is not a natural thing. Find some inner peace and hope the young man can rcover well enough to have a great career. Wish him a speedy recovery. Imagine he was your friend and this happened. Everybody wants to blame someone but in reality it's just part of the game or  the human experience.

Crying about the rebuild or looking for blame is just so selfish. The last thing we should care about is how it has affected us.

49 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

you might as well clean house with the entire fucking FO.  Look at all the injuries this year to key pieces.   Broom the entire fucking FO starting with Hahn and all the way down to the guy that tapes up ankles on the med team.

I'm done with this FO.  You pushed him too hard and FOR WHAT?  So you could sell some tickets while keeping Eloy down?  FUCK OFF.

Dumbest post of the year goes to you, but that shouldn't shock anyone.

Pitchers are all sore this time of year. If it really wasn’t barking too much, you cannot blame Kopech. He did pitch mostly 93-94, but did hit 96. Besides I really doubt pitching or not pitching the other night would make any difference regarding the outcome. The damage was done. Whether it was a week from now, this winter or next spring, he would have had an exam that came to the same conclusion.

Yeah, I can't even deal with this as a fan. I'm just going to pretend the White Sox don't exist for a while. 

 

Peace

i agree with this being patient but somethings are out of our control

https://twitter.com/BrianBilek_/status/1038188825628041221

Edited September 7, 20187 yr by timbo8

6 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

Dumbest post of the year goes to you, but that shouldn't shock anyone.

and yet I haven't attacked a single poster here, only the FO.

Legit worse case scenario. Fuckin terrible...

It's been a rough last two decades on my liver.  Sorry liver we got more rough waters ahead.

2 minutes ago, timbo8 said:

i agree with this being patient but somethings are out of our control

https://twitter.com/BrianBilek_/status/1038188825628041221

It’s the gamble you take with every pitcher, especially with someone like Kopech. In fact I mentioned it with Eloy. What if he came up and twisted his ankle or pulled an oblique? You just wasted servic time.

 

my thing with Kopech had nothing to do with injury, although now it shows it’s ugly head. I just wondered what exactly he would have gotten out of pitching to the Detroit Tigers. The only thin I could think of was getting his arms conditioned for extra innings, but if you really look at him and count 30or so starts, he is within range already of pitching enough to be fine next season had they kept him down. He wasn’t going to be a 200 inning pitcher unless he changed a bit.To me it wasn’t worth the control. I am not going to say told you so. What happened was really unlucky. If they kept him down, maybe it happens in Charlotte, or during the winter, or at spring training,then everyone is in the same page and RH, KW are geniuses. 

7 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

Legit worse case scenario. Fuckin terrible...

It could be worse. As long as his clock is started finding out about it in December or during spring training further backing up his rehab is worse.if it was going to happen in the next 6 months, now is the best time.

19 minutes ago, Baker said:

No. I think 2018 doesn’t count towards a full year. 2019 would be his first service year. 

Yeah, I think you're right. I was thinking burning getting the seventh year and not a full year. Good catch. 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

It’s the gamble you take with every pitcher, especially with someone like Kopech. In fact I mentioned it with Eloy. What if he came up and twisted his ankle or pulled an oblique? You just wasted servic time.

 

my thing with Kopech had nothing to do with injury, although now it shows it’s ugly head. I just wondered what exactly he would have gotten out of pitching to the Detroit Tigers. The only thin I could think of was getting his arms conditioned for extra innings, but if you really look at him and count 30or so starts, he is within range already of pitching enough to be fine next season had they kept him down. He wasn’t going to be a 200 inning pitcher unless he changed a bit.To me it wasn’t worth the control. I am not going to say told you so. What happened was really unlucky. If they kept him down, maybe it happens in Charlotte, or during the winter, or at spring training,then everyone is in the same page and RH, KW are geniuses. 

I was going to say, it would probably happen quickly. He makes about the same amount of starts to finish the year at AAA hypothetically, goes through off-season regime and realizes his arm hurts.

I feel bad likening the arrival of Kopech to the " The Light." Then the weather, when he pitched ,cosmically told me that wasn't the case at all. The universe has just told us it's going to be cloudy for a while.

1 minute ago, Tony said:

This was going to happen in MLB or AAA. This wasn’t a one start occurrence. 

Exactly.

So he's been pitching with soreness for how long?  And he was called up?  And nobody ever thought to schedule an examination or imaging of his pitching arm?

I'm telling you guys, this is another org wide failure.  It wasn't "inevitable" and even, grant me this, even if it WAS INEVITABLE the way it was handled was abysmal.  

How.  Are.  You.  Not.  Monitoring. Him. More.  Closely?

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

This was going to happen in MLB or AAA. This wasn’t a one start occurrence. 

That’s why I mentioned earlier I think it was probably torn some when he came up.

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It’s the gamble you take with every pitcher, especially with someone like Kopech. In fact I mentioned it with Eloy. What if he came up and twisted his ankle or pulled an oblique? You just wasted servic time.

 

my thing with Kopech had nothing to do with injury, although now it shows it’s ugly head. I just wondered what exactly he would have gotten out of pitching to the Detroit Tigers. The only thin I could think of was getting his arms conditioned for extra innings, but if you really look at him and count 30or so starts, he is within range already of pitching enough to be fine next season had they kept him down. He wasn’t going to be a 200 inning pitcher unless he changed a bit.To me it wasn’t worth the control. I am not going to say told you so. What happened was really unlucky. If they kept him down, maybe it happens in Charlotte, or during the winter, or at spring training,then everyone is in the same page and RH, KW are geniuses. 

Or it was already slighted torn and just pitching more up here turned it into what it became " a significant tear. "

16 minutes ago, GenericUserName said:

The biggest questions now should be how this impacts our offseason plan and if there is any way for us to get back some of that time that he is going to lose.

I think any chance of us contending next year is probably gone now with some guys not taking the steps forward that we would have wanted and this leaving a spot in the top of the rotation open. I would not be surprised to see us sell off and try to push back our window a little further. Rodon looks great, but who knows if he will sign an extension and if we would even want to with how injured he has been. We should look what the landscape if like for him and weigh keeping him with the downside of another injury versus the risks of even more prospects. Abreu and Avi should probably be traded, but after their respective season I can't see that happening in the offseason, so we might have to go into next year with them and hope for a bounce back. If Castillo plays well this last month of the season he should attract some trade interest and he might be expendable with how good Narvaez has looked offensively and the catchers we have coming up through the system needing spots. Going into next year expecting to rebuild would also allow us to keep trotting Palka and Engel out there to see what they can become with even more major league experience.

As for Kopech, assuming he is not healthy for all of next season, we may be able to justify sending him down to start 2020 so he can get back up to speed against lesser competition which would also give us a chance to gain an extra year of control which will make the pain of losing all of next year hurt less. If my math is right that would give us control through 2024 versus 2023. 

All excellent points. I doubt the tank seasons can go on for a few more years. The offseason plan should be the same as it was before except now they need to add another SP. If they thought they were going to add some this offseason I think they still will and should. There’s just too many potential risks and unknowns which are uncontrollable with service time and player injuries as you stated.

Eloy is coming up as soon as the extra year is secured. Why not try to surround him if he is truly a transcendent talent.  You have an athletic  homegrown SS who has shown growth, the former consensus top prospect in baseball in Yoan, an emerging ace who was the consensus best SP prospect the year he was drafted in Rodon. There are also some interesting trinkets like Palka, and Frye.  I’m not trying to minimize the Kopech injury. It sucks for him and the fan base right when it seemed the rebuild was picking up steam. At a minimum they will have to find another option for those 180 odd innings in 2019.  I hope the organization is not going to waste some of  Eloys best and cheapest years.

 

But he hits 110 on the gun! What could go wrong? 

Hope some lesser known pitchers get a chance next year and possibly surprise- Stephens/Flores/Adams.

my question to kopech why didn't tell hiss coaches that feels sore espically in aaa

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

This was going to happen in MLB or AAA. This wasn’t a one start occurrence. 

Exactly. Something the b**** about everything crowd here wouldn't understand.....

Seems a pretty radical assumption to absolve the Sox of all blame and just blame it on TINSTAAPP.

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or it was already slighted torn and just pitching more up here turned it into what it became " a significant tear. "

That is what I figured. He would have kept pitching in Charlotte so you figure the same thing was going to happen. 

 

I think this injury was pretty pretty much unavoidable. Kopech was already damaged goods in all likelihood when he was called up. And none of us had a clue, so hard to blame the White Sox. And he has typical soreness. Hard to blame him. It just happens and it sucks.

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

Seems a pretty radical assumption to absolve the Sox of all blame and just blame it on TINSTAAPP.

So radical that there is even a a well known acronym for cases like these

If you want to blame anything, go right to youth baseball and how kids are trained and programmed to only throw hard- because that’s the only way they’re getting noticed. The whole system sucks right now.