8 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

If this team wants to compete with the big boys, they'll eventually have to pay payroll like the big boys. They aren't my dollars to spend, but if having two big contracts on the books is going to restrict the White Sox from doing other things to improve the team, this whole process seems pointless, because even if they don't go big in free agency, they'll have to pay their own eventually.

Well come on. I agree with you but we aren't talking about big contracts, we are talking about two of the biggest in history in all likelihood.

FWIW, because a lot of posters are bringing it up — I do not think that this tweet implied at all that the White Sox are considering signing both of them at the same time. They are Pursuing both to sign one

10 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I honestly have no idea. If Eloy can be at least average defense in RF, I'm perfectly fine with Harper in LF.

He's probably as good as Avi out there. Not as fast not as good of an arm . Many here still think AVi is bad in the OF but he's not he's just average. He used to be bad . If you think average is bad then Eloy is bad . If we end up having some good fielding good hitting OF'ers come up after Eloy there's always 1st base for him.

3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

FWIW, because a lot of posters are bringing it up — I do not think that this tweet implied at all that the White Sox are considering signing both of them at the same time. They are Pursuing both to sign one

Yea to me that is obvious. Id be thrilled with one . No one should be thinking of both . Both signing here is a million to one while 1 signing here is 100 to one.

More fuel to the fire.

1 hour ago, Orlando said:

A lot of White Sox talk. My question is: Are agents using us again?

Listen to what Rick Hahn has to say.

1 hour ago, Tony said:

I don't know, the evidence seems to piling up for Manny. It just checks off a ton of boxes. 

I don't see Bryce. Just doesn't add up. 

I kind of feel the same way.  The OF is where we are loaded right now, so that seems like an awful lot for the least possible gain long term.

1 hour ago, daggins said:

They'll absolutely run a lowball offer for both, something like 8/240, and then when that doesn't even get close, Hahn will say the same thing he always does when he strikes out.

The worst possible strategy to execute this winter would be to pretend to the fan base to have legitimate interest in the top free agents, and it not be for real.  This would be so astronomically stupid, I can't even conceive for it being a possibility.  You are in a rebuild now, and the fans understand that directly.  Go convince them that you are looking at real big time players to have it found out to be a lie would destroy trust in this franchise forever.  It would be White Flag on steroids.

51 minutes ago, Quinarvy said:

Sign both so SoxTalk can complain about it in 2 years.

That would be a pretty long time to wait for Soxtalk.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

That would be a pretty long time to wait for Soxtalk.

Haha there would be complaints in the 1st week of the 1st season... probably even in spring training.

39 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Has anyone actually said Eloy's defense is bad? Because it seems like scouts seem to think he's long term viable in RF. Is this just a case of people thinking "well the bat is great so the defense must be terrible" or is there actually something to this notion that Eloy is bad defensively?

I haven't seen it said by a legitimate scout or scouting report.  There is nothing glowing in the report, but there is nothing that sounds like Palka or Delmonico either.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The worst possible strategy to execute this winter would be to pretend to the fan base to have legitimate interest in the top free agents, and it not be for real.  This would be so astronomically stupid, I can't even conceive for it being a possibility.  You are in a rebuild now, and the fans understand that directly.  Go convince them that you are looking at real big time players to have it found out to be a lie would destroy trust in this franchise forever.  It would be White Flag on steroids.

It's really weird. Hahn has not shied away from any of the machado stuff. And they are not idiots, they know the investment this will take. Clearly they have sign off on a large amount, but still, would be a huge tease.

It reminds me a bit of 2016 offseason after frazier when they hinted at going after the big three FA outfielders and signed none.

1 minute ago, yesterday333 said:

Haha there would be complaints in the 1st week of the 1st season... probably even in spring training.

THINK OF THE PAYROLL IN 2027!!!!

Just now, bmags said:

It's really weird. Hahn has not shied away from any of the machado stuff. And they are not idiots, they know the investment this will take. Clearly they have sign off on a large amount, but still, would be a huge tease.

It reminds me a bit of 2016 offseason after frazier when they hinted at going after the big three FA outfielders and signed none.

They have the easiest cover in the world to not get fans hopes up this winter with the rebuild.

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's really weird. Hahn has not shied away from any of the machado stuff. And they are not idiots, they know the investment this will take. Clearly they have sign off on a large amount, but still, would be a huge tease.

It reminds me a bit of 2016 offseason after frazier when they hinted at going after the big three FA outfielders and signed none.

I see a clear line between legitimately trying and failing, and throwing out an "offer" which has no chance of being accepted just to say you threw out an offer.  Ultimately I feel like the Sox probably will NOT sign either one of these guys, but I also don't feel like it will be for a lack of trying.    This is a LOT of money and years we are talking about, and I feel like we will reach the ownerships no go point during these negotiations.  Where that will be exactly, I don't know, but the one thing I don't see is the Sox offering Bryce Harper a 6/150 type of deal just so say they offered him a deal.  If they go in, they will go in with the intention of signing him, understanding what that means in terms of contract.

39 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well come on. I agree with you but we aren't talking about big contracts, we are talking about two of the biggest in history in all likelihood.

If Eloy is as good as we hope, they'll eventually have to give him a "[one] of the biggest in history" contract as well, so if they're not ready to spend when appropriate, there's no point to this whole endeavor.

51 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Has anyone actually said Eloy's defense is bad? Because it seems like scouts seem to think he's long term viable in RF. Is this just a case of people thinking "well the bat is great so the defense must be terrible" or is there actually something to this notion that Eloy is bad defensively?

I don’t think there is a notion that he is bad defensively, but my understanding is his range is limited because of his size and his arm is below average for a RF.  Long term he could be relegated to LF if he continues to grow.  Add another below average (or even bad fielder) in Harper and you probably need to move Eloy to 1B in order to have a solid OF defense.

So by both...does that mean...literally they want to sign both or they are going to go after both, hoping for one? I mean to me it is a no-brainer, if you are going to make a dent for a star, both of these guys are that so why wouldn't you. That photoshopped view of Harper in a Sox uni looked pretty sweet.  

11 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

If Eloy is as good as we hope, they'll eventually have to give him a "[one] of the biggest in history" contract as well, so if they're not ready to spend when appropriate, there's no point to this whole endeavor.

These guys were up in the majors at age 19 making this the anomoly that it is. Eloy is great, but especially if sox hold him into May, he won't be a free agent until something like 29. 

You don't often get players in FA at 25 years old, when you do it's because they were phenoms, like these kids were. There's big bucks, and then there's this. I think it's important to recognize that sox may still spend a lot but not end up buying the biggest contracts in history in the same offseason.

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think there is a notion that he is bad defensively, but my understanding is his range is limited because of his size and his arm is below average for a RF.  Long term he could be relegated to LF if he continues to grow.  Add another below average (or even bad fielder) in Harper and you probably need to move Eloy to 1B in order to have a solid OF defense.

FWIW I believe Eloy is already mostly playing LF in the minors. I don't think he's an MLB right fielder. 

13 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

If Eloy is as good as we hope, they'll eventually have to give him a "[one] of the biggest in history" contract as well, so if they're not ready to spend when appropriate, there's no point to this whole endeavor.

Why not structure the contract for Harper, so that he opts out, about the time that they have to pay the big money to Eloy. I'd gladly take 5 or 6 years of Harper, and then be OK with him opting out.

 

37 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The worst possible strategy to execute this winter would be to pretend to the fan base to have legitimate interest in the top free agents, and it not be for real.  This would be so astronomically stupid, I can't even conceive for it being a possibility.  You are in a rebuild now, and the fans understand that directly.  Go convince them that you are looking at real big time players to have it found out to be a lie would destroy trust in this franchise forever.  It would be White Flag on steroids.

This is true. Go check out Twitter right now. There are hundreds of meat heads retweeting Morosi with “LET’S GOOO!!!!$&)”

If you have no intention of getting one of these guys, you should be pounding these interviews with messages supporting patience, reminding them that we are a couple years through this thing and to go in prematurely will just make it longer. 

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Aww

11 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

So by both...does that mean...literally they want to sign both or they are going to go after both, hoping for one? I mean to me it is a no-brainer, if you are going to make a dent for a star, both of these guys are that so why wouldn't you. That photoshopped view of Harper in a Sox uni looked pretty sweet.  

I'd like to see them do that. Structure the deals for when the team has to pay its own, opt outs and all. Something like:

45-45-40-/-45-35-30-/-30-/-25-20-15

That's a 10 year $330 million deal with opt outs at years 3, 6, and 7 which is clearly designed to be opted out of after year 7. I feel like that offer would be attractive to both players for many reasons, and it would allow the team ideal flexibility in payroll in the back end years, with likely opt outs after year 7.