heirdog Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, Peacock Wrestler said: Depends on how well their farm system pans out. If they do fairly well then they won't need to go out and get other players, but if it doesn't they'll be in a big mess. They are at $110...could go to $145 w Harper. Myers gets expensive starting next year so will be $155. And one ace type pitcher to anchor Gore, Paddack, Morejon, Baez, quantrill, Espinoza among others is a pretty damn good spot to be in. and Tatis Jr, Urias, Mejia won’t need to be paid for awhile. By then, Myers and Hosmer gone. Ugh, this really could have been the White Sox in this position but one org planned well (in one month) and the other org “planned” for 2 years and missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 59 minutes ago, fathom said: They will just trade for pitching Always a fool-proof plan that goes well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, FT35 said: Honestly, at this current moment in time, the argument of who's better is irrelevant because Manny is no longer available. Since we missed on Manny, we're in a much different position as a franchise--a position that NEEDS Harper more than ever. We're now in a position of missing out on a star in a once in a lifetime market sans all the powerhouse teams. If we DON'T get Harper, we could be facing a situation where the only shot we have at a superstar is developing one. I don't like our chances...our player development is low and we won't have any fans coming to games to generate revenue. The powerhouse teams being out means nothing if someone else pays the price. Harper would be an overpay at 350 and a bad signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, turnin' two said: And here I thought that a .900 OPS was demonstrating fairly elite baseball skills. I guess I was wrong, upon checking, that is only good for 64th all time. So there are like 63 better offensive players in the history of the game (an oversimplification, but you get it). Well I use WAR more than OPS since JD Martinez is arguably a better hitter with no defensive skills and he got about 130 million. Citing one stat doesnt work for me. Harper had been an average overall player more years than hes been good - regardless of your ops opinion. If you're paying Harper 350 million to hit 250 with 30 Homer's you're badly overpaying. If he returns to the superstar he was one year then he's worth it. If hes last years Harper then hes not. Edited February 22, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Well I use WAR more than OPS since JD Martinez is arguably a better hitter with no defensive skills and he got about 130 million. Citing one stat doesnt work for me. Harper had been an average overall player more years than hes been good - regardless of your ops opinion. If you're paying Harper 350 million to hit 250 with 30 Homer's you're badly overpaying. If he returns to the superstar he was one year then he's worth it. If hes last years Harper then hes not. This is such a bad take. Harper has never been an "average player". His career OPS+ is 139, which means he is 39% better than an average player offensively. His worst season was in 2014 as a 21 year old at 111, still 11% above average. I am not the biggest Harper fan around, and I too think he will likely at some point be a financial burden to whomever signs him, this idea that he isn't a legitimate superstar is insane. Edited February 22, 2019 by ChiSox59 fixed typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Well I use WAR more than OPS since JD Martinez is arguably a better hitter with no defensive skills and he got about 130 million. Citing one stat doesnt work for me. Harper had been an average overall player more years than hes b0een good - regardless of your ops opinion. I get what you are saying, but OPS isn't really one stat. It is OBP (BB, AVG) and SLG (AVG, 2B,3B,HR). And the OPS thing isn't an opinion, it is statistical fact at this point. How I value it and how you value it may differ, but where he stands as an elite in that category isn't an opinion. And is JD a better hitter? He was last year, that much is certain. But through the same age, well, JD was good enough to be released. He hadn't accomplished really anything. As he aged, gained more experience, and learned, he has become elite. Through his prime years he has been one of the best hitters in baseball. Harper will play this entire season at age 26. Do you believe he has maxed out his talent? Could his experience and age mean the best is yet to come? JD put up a .307/.371/.586 for an OPS (oops! Sorry!) of .958. If he had become a free agent at 26, and had produced anything that could have led teams to believe this output was coming, what do you think he would have received upon signing? One major stat, that you failed to calculate in your comparison of Harper and JD, is just frankly age. JD received 130 million for years covering his ages 30-34. If you pay Harper that same rate for those same years, shouldn't you expect there to be a premium on his years 26-30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I am not the biggest Harper fan around, and I too think he will likely at some point be a financial burden to whomever signs him, this idea that he isn't a legitimate superstar is insane. Probably true of any 10 year contract. If you want to reap the benefits of having the star player through his prime, you have to bear their decline. The good part about Harper, is that his decline, would hopefully be a smaller percentage of the contract since you'd be signing him so young. Dammit, why am I doing this. I know they aren't signing him. He sucks, I don't want him anyways. Who cares. So he hits dingers and gets on base. And has beautiful hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpet1010 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Sockin said: I feel like I've seen this picture before but a reverse image search didn't turn up anything. OMG. Someone find out if this is an old pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Kpet1010 said: OMG. Someone find out if this is an old pic. Ugh. I will not get my hopes up, I will not get my hopes up. Thinks to self "largest contract in MLB history is what will be required". Ok hopes back in the gutter. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Kpet1010 said: OMG. Someone find out if this is an old pic. My father worked at the Gatorade Science Lab in Barrington in the 1990s. He retired in 1999 when they were bought by PepsiCo. Sorry, can't help. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kpet1010 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-blackhawks/nationals-bryce-harper-sports-blackhawks-shirt Found the pic, from 2015 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacock Wrestler Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kpet1010 said: OMG. Someone find out if this is an old pic. I think it has to be old. No way someone would be able to take this type of picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 that picture is probably from when he signed as a Gatorade athlete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kpet1010 said: https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-blackhawks/nationals-bryce-harper-sports-blackhawks-shirt Found the pic, from 2015 What a jagoff, that Brett Santos cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skooch Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Bryce Harper is currently in Chicago meeting with a “mystery team”... Quick, someone wake up Charles the Cat … On second thought, never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, skooch said: Bryce Harper is currently in Chicago meeting with a “mystery team”... Quick, someone wake up Charles the Cat … On second thought, never mind. @Peavy44 approved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacock Wrestler Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, skooch said: Bryce Harper is currently in Chicago meeting with a “mystery team”... Quick, someone wake up Charles the Cat … On second thought, never mind. That was such a poorly worded fake source. It wouldn't be a "mystery team." It would either be the Sox, who were already linked to him, or the Cubs (the only other MLB team in Chicago)....It wouldn't even take Scooby Doo and the gang the full 30 minutes to figure this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: This is such a bad take. Harper has never been an "average player". His career OPS+ is 139, which means he is 39% better than an average player offensively. His worst season was in 2014 as a 21 year old at 111, still 11% above average. I am not the biggest Harper fan around, and I too think he will likely at some point be a financial burden to whomever signs him, this idea that he isn't a legitimate superstar is insane. Dude. If you use bWAR he has multiple years below 2 WAR. If you use fWAR, he has 2 years at 3 and 1 at 1.6. How has he never been average? Theres more to baseball than wRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, turnin' two said: I get what you are saying, but OPS isn't really one stat. It is OBP (BB, AVG) and SLG (AVG, 2B,3B,HR). And the OPS thing isn't an opinion, it is statistical fact at this point. How I value it and how you value it may differ, but where he stands as an elite in that category isn't an opinion. And is JD a better hitter? He was last year, that much is certain. But through the same age, well, JD was good enough to be released. He hadn't accomplished really anything. As he aged, gained more experience, and learned, he has become elite. Through his prime years he has been one of the best hitters in baseball. Harper will play this entire season at age 26. Do you believe he has maxed out his talent? Could his experience and age mean the best is yet to come? JD put up a .307/.371/.586 for an OPS (oops! Sorry!) of .958. If he had become a free agent at 26, and had produced anything that could have led teams to believe this output was coming, what do you think he would have received upon signing? One major stat, that you failed to calculate in your comparison of Harper and JD, is just frankly age. JD received 130 million for years covering his ages 30-34. If you pay Harper that same rate for those same years, shouldn't you expect there to be a premium on his years 26-30? Jd Martinez has been a better hitter overall since his swing change - at worst they've been incredible similar. Jd was older, but that doesnt mean Bryce Harper is worth twice as much Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Dude. If you use bWAR he has multiple years below 2 WAR. If you use fWAR, he has 2 years at 3 and 1 at 1.6. How has he never been average? Theres more to baseball than wRC Dude. Cherry pick whatever stat you want, he's still not average. He has averaged 4.39 fWAR per seasons across his career. He is a damn near HOF shoe-in at 26, and its likely he's just now entering his prime. The one year you want to call average a 1.6 fWAR he was hurt and had less than 400 plate appearances. WAR is a counting stat, so of course his WAR was lower that season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Dude. Cherry pick whatever stat you want, he's still not average. He has averaged 4.39 fWAR per seasons across his career. He is a damn near HOF shoe-in at 26, and its likely he's just now entering his prime. The one year you want to call average a 1.6 fWAR he was hurt and had less than 400 plate appearances. WAR is a counting stat, so of course his WAR was lower that season. Cherry pick? Lol. It's WAR. How is that cherry picking? Btw, getting hurt is an issue with harper. 3 WAR isnt worth 350 million pal. Sorry. Edited February 22, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Cue Fox Mulder, I want to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Peacock Wrestler said: That was such a poorly worded fake source. It wouldn't be a "mystery team." It would either be the Sox, who were already linked to him, or the Cubs (the only other MLB team in Chicago)....It wouldn't even take Scooby Doo and the gang the full 30 minutes to figure this out. Ordinarily I'd laugh at the Scooby Doo reference, but let's be real here... after the past 72 hours, I wouldn't put anything past this front office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Jd Martinez has been a better hitter overall since his swing change - at worst they've been incredible similar. Jd was older, but that doesnt mean Bryce Harper is worth twice as much Sorry Hahah. OK, well interesting theory. I think being a free agent at 26 is different than being a free agent at 30, and that will impact the duration of the contract, which impacts the overall value. I also think there is a premium to be paid for what can be expected to be a players prime years, which will impact the AAV. I never said Bryce was the better hitter, but there is reason to believe that he could be in time. And that the comparison is so distant it can't even be made in terms of production through the same age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Cherry pick? Lol. It's WAR. How is that cherry picking? 3 WAR isnt worth 350 million pal. Sorry. I just told you his average fWAR was 4.39 over the course of his entire career, not 3. Conservatively, 1 WAR is equal to about $9M on the free agent market. Let's assume just for the sake of your own argument Harper regresses to a 4 WAR player moving forward. 4 x $9M = $36M per season in value $36M X 10 seasons = $360M So yah....he probably is worth $350M+, and that completely discounts inflation on the backend of his contract. Edited February 22, 2019 by ChiSox59 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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