5 minutes ago, shipps said:

The whole Shields debacle has put fans in a place where we would not rule out the FO trading talent for a has been. 

One way to avoid that risk is to stop trading for has-beens.
Unfortunately, it's ingrained.

Edited December 29, 20187 yr by GreenSox

1 minute ago, Sarava said:

Here's another thought. If Eloy had been promoted mid-summer as he deserved - could that of swayed these guys? Prospects bomb out all the time. But if he came up and tore the AL up for 2 months, the Sox have a much better case to bring to Machado or Harper. Of course, Eloy could of come up and struggled too - to be fair.

Would giving up 2025 control of Eloy be worth Manny Machado coming here?

Wouldn’t move the needle IMO. 

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Or two individuals that were told what they wanted to hear by agents but were just being used to drive up costs?  Wait, you’re telling me Harper doesn’t really care about what prospects you have coming up in 2-3 years?

I did get a kick out of Boras telling everyone Harper was studying farm systems. 

Someone might want to remind him that the team he left had a talent level few do, and he is still looking for his first postseason series win.

Just now, GreenSox said:

One way to avoid that risk is to stop trading for has-beens.

Or fire a GM for once in your life 

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Because they have that position filled, one by Machado’s brother in law, and Encarnacion is pretty much a DH only, owed a minimum $25 million, 35 years old, coming off a down year. And Morosi, and maybe that is also inaccurate, made it seem like the Sox were doing a bit more that checking in on him. And it comes out the same day of the other report. If everything that comes out is bullshit, how do we know the reports of the White Sox really being a player for theses guys and not the typical also rans they normally are, aren’t bullshit?

I think the Sox are sitting around waiting on a few guys that are entertaining some other options and maybe are letting one of them know there are contingencies in play should a particular agent want to continue to drive their price up.

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

This is where I’m at, pretty much. If we don’t land a whale I’d be fine if the FO got a shake-up. There is no excuse, this was my expectation from the moment they traded Sale and later set themselves up for having zero significant payroll obligations in the future. If you can’t make yourself appealing to a FA when you’re the team offering them the most money, I’m not gonna be one of the fans who’s saying “at least you tried”.

Hopes of the front office getting shaken up is about as likely to happen as the Sox landing Mike Trout tomorrow. Reinsdorf does not do these type of things, hence why GarPax have been in charge for so long with the Bulls and why KW/Hahn has been there for so long for the Sox. If these were any other organization that actually cared about winning instead of making a dollar I would agree about the shake up, I just don’t see that changing here anytime soon

Ask yourselfs this... How many big time free agents have the sox landed in the last 37 years of reinsdorf? 

 

3

Carlton risk 1981

Floyd banister 1982

Albert belle 1996

2 minutes ago, iamshack said:

I think the Sox are sitting around waiting on a few guys that are entertaining some other options and maybe are letting one of them know there are contingencies in play should a particular agent want to continue to drive their price up.

But wouldn’t it be wiser in this situation to be linked to guys that would actually impact them, such as Moustakas or Pollock (assuming you’re referring to the big 2)

5 minutes ago, iamshack said:

I think the Sox are sitting around waiting on a few guys that are entertaining some other options and maybe are letting one of them know there are contingencies in play should a particular agent want to continue to drive their price up.

I hope that is the case, especially for the remaining free agents - Moustakas and Pollock to name a few.

20 minutes ago, ptatc said:

But this isn't just an issue with the White Sox. He always wanted to go to the Yankees over ALL other teams. This includes the Phillies and the Dodgers and all of the other teams. It's not be cause the Sox are irrelevant,  it's because he WANTED to go to the Yankees. 

I know it won't satisfy the torch wielding mobs, but in reality, the Sox always had an uphill battle for these guys.  Hahn saying they would be aggressive in chasing them isn't the same thing as saying they would sign them.  He even knew that which is why he talked about if they couldn't they could always stay on the former course.  In these two specific cases, the fact that both players had a place they really wanted to go, and the fact that the Sox were in rebuilding mode was always going to be working against them.  Most people wanted the rebuild, but this was the downside of starting that cycle.

1 minute ago, fathom said:

But wouldn’t it be wiser in this situation to be linked to guys that would actually impact them, such as Moustakas or Pollock (assuming you’re referring to the big 2)

I think the entire premise is ridiculous, but can anyone really rule out Jerry Dipoto trading Edwin Encarnacion for Yonder Alonso +?

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I know it won't satisfy the torch wielding mobs, but in reality, the Sox always had an uphill battle for these guys.  Hahn saying they would be aggressive in chasing them isn't the same thing as saying they would sign them.  He even knew that which is why he talked about if they couldn't they could always stay on the former course.  In these two specific cases, the fact that both players had a place they really wanted to go, and the fact that the Sox were in rebuilding mode was always going to be working against them.  Most people wanted the rebuild, but this was the downside of starting that cycle.

This is a lot of past tense for two guys who are currently free agents. 

1 minute ago, Tony said:

That’s not totally fair, given they signed Abreu, Ramirez and Robert as all three were wanted by many teams. 

Most teams couldn't sign Robert due to only being able to spend $300k on one player so it's not really the same situation.

Just now, iamshack said:

I think the entire premise is ridiculous, but can anyone really rule out Jerry Dipoto trading Edwin Encarnacion for Yonder Alonso +?

He would do it for the financial savings. But what does paying EE a minimum $25 million do for the White Sox?

and wouldn’t trading Alonso mean Machado isn’t coming?

1 minute ago, iamshack said:

I think the entire premise is ridiculous, but can anyone really rule out Jerry Dipoto trading Edwin Encarnacion for Yonder Alonso +?

Would save them some money

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

That’s not totally fair, given they signed Abreu, Ramirez and Robert as all three were wanted by many teams. 

It is fair. Cause they were unproven players. I mean established major league stars

2 minutes ago, iamshack said:

I think the entire premise is ridiculous, but can anyone really rule out Jerry Dipoto trading Edwin Encarnacion for Yonder Alonso +?

That means we will have traded for both the prior year's Indians 1B and DH in the same offseason

Just now, Dick Allen said:

He would do it for the financial savings. But what does paying EE a minimum $25 million do for the White Sox?

and wouldn’t trading Alonso mean Machado isn’t coming?

Hey, I said the entire premise was ridiculous, but if you are going to put any stock in Morosi’s info, wouldn’t it be as a way of trying to hedge against Lozano coming back to the well?

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I know it won't satisfy the torch wielding mobs, but in reality, the Sox always had an uphill battle for these guys.  Hahn saying they would be aggressive in chasing them isn't the same thing as saying they would sign them.  He even knew that which is why he talked about if they couldn't they could always stay on the former course.  In these two specific cases, the fact that both players had a place they really wanted to go, and the fact that the Sox were in rebuilding mode was always going to be working against them.  Most people wanted the rebuild, but this was the downside of starting that cycle.

I believe it was said at this winter meeting by both Hahn and KW was that this wasn’t a thought up process over night, that they had been planning for this specific offseason/winter meeting for 3 years now and to strike out swinging while applaudable at trying, it just isn’t good enough when you come out saying that this plan was in motion for 3 years now. 

The White Sox are 134 games under .500 the 6 seasons Rick Hahn has been GM. I am guessing Matt Millen wasn’t available.

I feel like the Sox are going to be dead set on making big splash this off season whatever means necessary. If they strike out on these guys that means there will be a trade that hauls out young talent. 

Is a trade for Arenado with the thought of signing him a possibility as plan b? 

1 minute ago, iamshack said:

Hey, I said the entire premise was ridiculous, but if you are going to put any stock in Morosi’s info, wouldn’t it be as a way of trying to hedge against Lozano coming back to the well?

I just don’t think the White Sox are in a position to play that game. If they don’t know it is going to cost them more than it would the Yankees, they were screwed from the get go. If they want one of these guys they are going to have to blow away the competition, not try to nickel and dime them.

When JR signed Belle he asked them what it was going to take. He then agreed. Here it is a bit more, so there could be some back and forth, but not nearly as much as there could be if they actually were a desirable destination.

Just now, shipps said:

I feel like the Sox are going to be dead set on making big splash this off season whatever means necessary. If they strike out on these guys that means there will be a trade that hauls out young talent. 

Is a trade for Arenado with the thought of signing him a possibility as plan b? 

That would be the only way I would trade for him is if you could do an agreement to sign and trade. I wouldn’t hope and pray for a Goldschmidt situation to where he  could just walk the next offseason.

17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I did get a kick out of Boras telling everyone Harper was studying farm systems. 

Someone might want to remind him that the team he left had a talent level few do, and he is still looking for his first postseason series win.

I don't believe that Harper is studying farm systems, he want the biggest deal on the market. 

However, IF he did care about a team's pipeline of young talent, wouldn't that be a reason to leave Baltimore? Not sure I am understanding how Baltimore having a bad minor league system factors into his decision.

20 minutes ago, Tony said:

And this has been my whole “issue” with the way the Fronr Office has gone about things. You’re right. It would be a failure and they have raised expectations. If they land one, they deserve all the credit in the world. But if they don’t, I don’t want to hear from the “well they tried!” group. If that’s your take, then you haven’t really been listening to what the Sox have been selling. This is it.

So there is no possiblity that Machado always wanted to play for the Yankmees and Harper always wanted to play in LA and nothing was going to change their minds? Since all of the deals were going to be near record setting, their desire to play in a particular city makes no difference.