Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Sat - Me canceling my cable because I refuse to watch a team that plans on giving Big Game James 30 starts next year.

Ha yeah, I really hate this scenario

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol...I’d be all for it, but didn’t want to get too greedy.  But add those four guys and this team has an outside shot at the division in 2019.

Add those four and Eloy and they better damn win the division.

2 minutes ago, fredmanrique said:

 we'll never truly know if we're outbid, players simply wanted to play elsewhere, etc.

I actually do think this kind of stuff will end up leaking out after they sign

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sat - Me canceling my cable because I refuse to watch a team that plans on giving Big Game James 30 starts next year.

It may be one reason I am so against bringing Shields back under any circumstance. For some reason, my ticket plan synced up with James Shields starts way too often the past 2 1/2 seasons. I can't take another. 

6 minutes ago, fredmanrique said:

my favorite part of the rebuild the last two years was that we could all see the plan and the fanbase had an air of positivity.

the ' I'm done with Hahn' vibe if he doesn't get Harper or Machado despite trying is nauseating sox fan negativity. we'll never truly know if we're outbid, players simply wanted to play elsewhere, etc.

to date, nothing suggests the plan is off path within hahn's control. Alonso is a 9 mil gamble but it's not a dead weight player either. playing matchups between abreu, Alonso, palka at 1b/dh is an improvement in defense and likely offense.

you do your best to reel the big fish in and if you cant, take on some bad contracts, add more prospects and go hard at arenado, etc in a year. 'but I've waited too long as a sox fan!'

um, its year three of a rebuild that involved almost a full sell off. it stinks moncada and giolito in particular cause hesitation as to if this will work, but there's really no choice but to be a fan or not, with a healthy reminder there are 29 other teams and free agency simply will never work out for all.

 

 

Capitals are your friend, not the enemy! But otherwise very good points all around!

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It may be one reason I am so against bringing Shields back under any circumstance. For some reason, my ticket plan synced up with James Shields starts way too often the past 2 1/2 seasons. I can't take another. 

Shields and Alonso > Machado and the next Manny Machado 

5 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

If we are continuing the tank, why not? 

Because roster spots are valuable and shouldn’t be wasted on guy with zero short-term or long-term upside.  Either sign a flip candidate for the fifth spot (like Pomeranz) or give it to a young guy like Stephens or even a wild card like Banuelos.  

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because roster spots are valuable and shouldn’t be wasted on guy with zero short-term or long-term upside.  Either sign a flip candidate for the fifth spot (like Pomeranz) or give it to a young guy like Stephens or even a wild card like Banuelos.  

One benefit of someone like Shields is that he's at least likely to give 150+ innings, which should help both the bullpen and the other starters in the rotation because we won't be as desperate for innings from them and they won't be pushed as much if they're having an off day. That said, Nova pretty much satisfies me on that role. 

24 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It may be one reason I am so against bringing Shields back under any circumstance. For some reason, my ticket plan synced up with James Shields starts way too often the past 2 1/2 seasons. I can't take another. 

At this point in the rebuild, we can at least lose with a little class.  Throwing Shields out there every fifth is an insult to our paying customers.  Like I said, at least give the spot to someone with a sliver of upside.

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

One benefit of someone like Shields is that he's at least likely to give 150+ innings, which should help both the bullpen and the other starters in the rotation because we won't be as desperate for innings from them and they won't be pushed as much if they're having an off day. That said, Nova pretty much satisfies me on that role. 

I agree that Nova already fills that role and does so with at least a little bit of upside.  I’d really hate wasting two rotation spots on two “innings eaters”.  Hard to find diamonds in the rough if you refuse to swing for the fences.

40 minutes ago, fredmanrique said:

my favorite part of the rebuild the last two years was that we could all see the plan and the fanbase had an air of positivity.

the ' I'm done with Hahn' vibe if he doesn't get Harper or Machado despite trying is nauseating sox fan negativity. we'll never truly know if we're outbid, players simply wanted to play elsewhere, etc.

to date, nothing suggests the plan is off path within hahn's control. Alonso is a 9 mil gamble but it's not a dead weight player either. playing matchups between abreu, Alonso, palka at 1b/dh is an improvement in defense and likely offense.

you do your best to reel the big fish in and if you cant, take on some bad contracts, add more prospects and go hard at arenado, etc in a year. 'but I've waited too long as a sox fan!'

um, its year three of a rebuild that involved almost a full sell off. it stinks moncada and giolito in particular cause hesitation as to if this will work, but there's really no choice but to be a fan or not, with a healthy reminder there are 29 other teams and free agency simply will never work out for all.

 

 

Well said and completely agree

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

At this point in the rebuild, we can at least lose with a little class.  Throwing Shields out there every fifth is an insult to our paying customers.  Like I said, at least give the spot to someone with a sliver of upside.

I don’t believe you would have to worry about insulting our paying customers, if they lose out on both Machado and Harper I think that will top any James Shield signing, besides he’s a veteran who you could flip for a prospect possibly at the deadline as well. Besides a move like this is so whitesox it’s laughable 

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Hahn has been the GM for 6 years and the assistant GM for about a decade before that. KW has been a decision maker since he took over a 95 win team with what was the #1 ranked farm system in baseball in 2001. 

There is probably no other team in baseball that would have even considered for a second having them lead a rebuild. 

Would you still fire Hahn if Moncada turns out to be an above average 2B, Lopez and Gio are solid 3/4 starters, and you get a 66.7% success rate on Eloy/Cease/Kopech hitting their ceiling, and get another 3-4 from rest solid MLB regulars rest of the top 20 prospects? Nothing happened in 2018 that suggests this wouldn’t be the likely outcome.

Hahn inherited an awful farm system and was asked to rebuild on the fly from 2012-16 with limited resources. He shown was given the green light for a full rebuild he made a slew of strong moves to jump start this rebuild. Now is a waiting game to see where these prospects take us. 2 years is not enough to determine Hahn has failed in this rebuild and needs to get the boot.

If we miss on both, do fans actually come out at all?

Again, Hahn’s openness in this whole process makes me cautiously optimistic they get one of the big two. I also think machado is still in play. Any of the big credible guys would have confirmed if NYY was final choice. 

11 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

I don’t believe you would have to worry about insulting our paying customers, if they lose out on both Machado and Harper I think that will top any James Shield signing, besides he’s a veteran who you could flip for a prospect possibly at the deadline as well. Besides a move like this is so whitesox it’s laughable 

Shields is unflipplable, last year proves as much IMO.  I do have a small fear they bring him back, but I’m praying our front office is smarter than that.

53 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It may be one reason I am so against bringing Shields back under any circumstance. For some reason, my ticket plan synced up with James Shields starts way too often the past 2 1/2 seasons. I can't take another. 

Mine did too. Saw too much of him.

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Shields is unflipplable, last year proves as much IMO.  I do have a small fear they bring him back, but I’m praying our front office is smarter than that.

Wasn’t he essentially playing the mentor roll with the rest of the staff last year? I don’t think it would be a terrible idea to bring him back and have him continue to do that and keep the seat warm for it and when the decide to bring up a Cease

5 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

Wasn’t he essentially playing the mentor roll with the rest of the staff last year? I don’t think it would be a terrible idea to bring him back and have him continue to do that and keep the seat warm for it and when the decide to bring up a Cease

They can bring in someone a bit younger to be a mentor. Someone who might have some upside to bring at least bring something back in a deal like a Gio Gonzalez. Or hope Pomeranz can pitch like he did the 2 years prior to last year.

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by soxfan2014

18 minutes ago, HakunaMachado said:

If we miss on both, do fans actually come out at all?

Again, Hahn’s openness in this whole process makes me cautiously optimistic they get one of the big two. I also think machado is still in play. Any of the big credible guys would have confirmed if NYY was final choice. 

No need to consider that scenario. They’re signing Harper.

6 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

Wasn’t he essentially playing the mentor roll with the rest of the staff last year? I don’t think it would be a terrible idea to bring him back and have him continue to do that and keep the seat warm for it and when the decide to bring up a Cease

They would have moved him last year in July or August if anyone offered anything of value.  As for the mentoring role, that’s what Nova was brought in for.  There is no logical reason to give Shields another 150 to 200 innings IMO.

23 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Would you still fire Hahn if Moncada turns out to be an above average 2B, Lopez and Gio are solid 3/4 starters, and you get a 66.7% success rate on Eloy/Cease/Kopech hitting their ceiling, and get another 3-4 from rest solid MLB regulars rest of the top 20 prospects? Nothing happened in 2018 that suggests this wouldn’t be the likely outcome.

Hahn inherited an awful farm system and was asked to rebuild on the fly from 2012-16 with limited resources. He shown was given the green light for a full rebuild he made a slew of strong moves to jump start this rebuild. Now is a waiting game to see where these prospects take us. 2 years is not enough to determine Hahn has failed in this rebuild and needs to get the boot.

He didn't inherit it, he helped create it. 

He isn't going anywhere. I know that. But he shoudn't be where he is. He seems like a decent enough guy. I think he's very bright, but I don't think MLB GM is his thing. And it's not all on him. KW needs to go as well. 

Bringing Shields back would be awful signalling....and a constant reminder to fans of something that I'm sure the FO would like them to forget.

As for Shields and Abreu being mentors.....what has this accomplished?   None of the young players has show much.  Yea they've stayed out of trouble...do they really need mentors for that?

 

Please stop the Shields talk, it’s making me nauseous.

Just now, TheTruth05 said:

Please stop the Shields talk, it’s making me nauseous.

Can we talk Fernando Tatis Jr?

20 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Can we talk Fernando Tatis Jr?

If he was still in the Sox system, people would complain about his 3/1 K/BB ratio.