On 6/30/2019 at 10:34 PM, reiks12 said:

Post from /r/baseball.

Our .461 winning percentage (709-829) is dead last in the American League. Only the Marlins have a worse record, but its close.

Hoping the next decade sees us near the top!

Maybe this is why this has felt like a satisfying year so far. When we had strong teams in the early 90's and the first part of the 2000's, being 3 games under would have had me angry. But because the arrow is pointing upward as the long rebuilding we've been going through is finally bearing some fruit, this season has been enjoyable. And also, this is misleading because too long a time span is being looked at. Looking at this tells you that Detroit has been more successful then Houston. But it's been 5 years since that's been true. Fans of the Astros would laugh at this of being important because of how good they've been/are the last 5 years. And Tiger fans would look at this and say "so what? We haven't been good for 5 years." They wouldn't see any consolation in this because what you've done lately is all anybody cares/thinks about. It's true this proves that the last 10 years haven't been the most fun, but if our rebuilding does continue to take shape the next few years, it won't matter at all how bad we were in 2017 or 2018.

1 hour ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Houston had a complete culture change (new GM, new manager), White Sox had a complete culture change (new rebuild, new manager)

Houston played poorly for a number of seasons and accrued high draft picks, White Sox played poorly and accrued high draft picks

The difference is the White Sox were able to trade valuable assets for future talent.  

If the trend is any indication, the White Sox are approaching the upswing in performance in a similar fashion to what the Cubs and Astros did.

So what I said was mostly accurate.  

Lol - except for that minor issue of both Houston and the Cubs undergoing new ownership and new front offices who spearheaded those organizations’ rebuilds vs. the loser former owners/FOs who caused the need for their rebuilds in the first place, you just can’t tell the difference between our rebuild and theirs!

22nd ranked team at ASB according to averaging of all 30 theathletic.com beat writers.

1 minute ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Lol - except for that minor issue of both Houston and the Cubs undergoing new ownership and new front offices who spearheaded those organizations’ rebuilds vs. the loser former owners/FOs who caused the need for their rebuilds in the first place, you just can’t tell the difference between our rebuild and theirs!

Plus they had already inherited Altuve...a future MVP.  Springer pick, too？

I think what you'll find even with the Astros and Cubs is that at least in terms of sheer numbers, draft and international free agency are not the main tools used to build the teams in the rebuild period. Of course, hitting big on a small number of draft picks was crucial. Getting something from the "oops" years (when the rebuild had not begun but the team wasn't good) is also important (e.g., Altuve, Javy Baez, Willson Contreras).

For the Cubs:

Kris Byrant
Kyle Schwarber (wasn't an important piece in WS year, though)

For the Astros:

Carlos Correa
Lance McCullers
Alex Bregman

Both teams have some rebuild-era draft picks that are on the fringe of being core contributors (e.g. Almora, Bote) that I'm not yet including.

 

The other method of course is trading for those important pieces as part of the rebuild.

For the Cubs:

Jake Arrieta (for that old starter whose name I forget)
Anthony Rizzo (for Cashner, basically the first move of the new regime)
Kyle Hendricks (for Dempster)
Addison Russell (for Samardzija/Hammel)
Pedro Strop (same deal as Arrieta)
Carl Edwards Jr. (for Garza)

I wouldn't include the post-rebuild trades like Chapman, Wade Davis, Mike Montgomery (if he would count as an important piece anyway)

For the Astros:

Joe Musgrove (for JA Happ)
Brad Peacock (for Jed Lowrie)
Evan Gattis (for Foltynewicz)
Ken Giles (part of mega-deal)
Brian McCann (acquired as salary dump)

I'm leaving out most importantly Justin Verlander who was acquired at the waiver deadline once their rebuild was quite clearly over with.

 

Everything else for those teams came either from times before the rebuild began, via free agency, or moves post-rebuild.
 

1 hour ago, Jake said:

I think what you'll find even with the Astros and Cubs is that at least in terms of sheer numbers, draft and international free agency are not the main tools used to build the teams in the rebuild period. Of course, hitting big on a small number of draft picks was crucial. Getting something from the "oops" years (when the rebuild had not begun but the team wasn't good) is also important (e.g., Altuve, Javy Baez, Willson Contreras).

For the Cubs:

Kris Byrant
Kyle Schwarber (wasn't an important piece in WS year, though)

For the Astros:

Carlos Correa
Lance McCullers
Alex Bregman

Both teams have some rebuild-era draft picks that are on the fringe of being core contributors (e.g. Almora, Bote) that I'm not yet including.

 

The other method of course is trading for those important pieces as part of the rebuild.

For the Cubs:

Jake Arrieta (for that old starter whose name I forget)
Anthony Rizzo (for Cashner, basically the first move of the new regime)
Kyle Hendricks (for Dempster)
Addison Russell (for Samardzija/Hammel)
Pedro Strop (same deal as Arrieta)
Carl Edwards Jr. (for Garza)

I wouldn't include the post-rebuild trades like Chapman, Wade Davis, Mike Montgomery (if he would count as an important piece anyway)

For the Astros:

Joe Musgrove (for JA Happ)
Brad Peacock (for Jed Lowrie)
Evan Gattis (for Foltynewicz)
Ken Giles (part of mega-deal)
Brian McCann (acquired as salary dump)

I'm leaving out most importantly Justin Verlander who was acquired at the waiver deadline once their rebuild was quite clearly over with.

 

Everything else for those teams came either from times before the rebuild began, via free agency, or moves post-rebuild.
 

The complete picture with the White Sox is going to look eerily similar in terms of "how the players got where they are"

It's fairly obvious the White Sox are attempting to follow this model.   The fact that a certain low-rent poster (see my sig) apparently disagrees with me only solidifies my point.   His takes are shockingly simple. 

Edited July 2, 20196 yr by Eloy Jiménez

Rebuild or no rebuild this has been the worst decade for the franchise since the 1970s. It will be the first time since then the team didn't make the playoffs at least once during a decade. Nothing can change that.

4 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Rebuild or no rebuild this has been the worst decade for the franchise since the 1970s. It will be the first time since then the team didn't make the playoffs at least once during a decade. Nothing can change that.

Sickening. All things considered, including the fact the Sox play in an awful division, it has been an embarrassing decade. No doubt the Sox need a new owner with deep pockets and new front office and new instructors. Our organization is truly one of the worst in baseball. It's be OK with me to fire all of them except Hahn. Get rid of KW. Hahn of course gets a lifetime pass IMO cause of Eloy and the fact he's not truly in charge. KW and Jerry obviously have a huge say in roster.

Edited July 2, 20196 yr by greg775

Living in the cornfields of NW Illinois, I can tell you that White Sox are whats in yr top shelf of  yr dresser. In a city of 25K, there is hardly any Sox items in the stores at all. Nearly 100% cubs, I'd say the Brewers have more a presence than the Sox

And to think the Sox had a great opportunity to build fanbase after 2005 and they totally dropped the ball ?

 

 

Edited July 3, 20196 yr by The Grinder

18 hours ago, greg775 said:

Sickening. All things considered, including the fact the Sox play in an awful division, it has been an embarrassing decade. No doubt the Sox need a new owner with deep pockets and new front office and new instructors. Our organization is truly one of the worst in baseball. It's be OK with me to fire all of them except Hahn. Get rid of KW. Hahn of course gets a lifetime pass IMO cause of Eloy and the fact he's not truly in charge. KW and Jerry obviously have a huge say in roster.

Over the last 10 years, the AL Central has had the AL team in the World Series 4 of those 10 series.

On 7/1/2019 at 8:43 PM, greg775 said:

I wonder how all the losing has affected our younger fan base. Do little kids on the South Side still stick up for the Sox in arguments with their peers about Cubs vs. Sox. Or have the Sox lost all its younger fanbase?

I don't think younger kids are as interested in baseball these days.

35 minutes ago, The Grinder said:

Living in the cornfields of NW Illinois, I can tell you that White Sox are whats in yr top shelf of  yr dresser. In a city of 25K, there is hardly any Sox items in the stores at all. Nearly 100% cubs, I'd say the Brewers have more a presence than the Sox

And to think the Sox had a great opportunity to build fanbase after 2005 and they totally dropped the ball ?

 

 

It was like that long before their recent uniforms.  Day baseball and WGN started a young fan base. WGN was the #1 station for kids.  Ray Rayner in the morning before school and the ending of Cub games after school.

On 7/2/2019 at 9:41 AM, Eloy Jiménez said:

Houston had a complete culture change (new GM, new manager), White Sox had a complete culture change (new rebuild, new manager)

Houston played poorly for a number of seasons and accrued high draft picks, White Sox played poorly and accrued high draft picks

The difference is the White Sox were able to trade valuable assets for future talent.  

If the trend is any indication, the White Sox are approaching the upswing in performance in a similar fashion to what the Cubs and Astros did.

So what I said was mostly accurate.  

Sure it is............................ 

We are well underway with putting together the best team of the next decade.  Keep the faith.

4 hours ago, poppysox said:

We are well underway with putting together the best team of the next decade.  Keep the faith.

Time will tell...remember the Yankees will still be the Yankees, the Red Sox will still spend ungodly amounts of money as will the Dodgers and Houston has shown themselves to have a tremendous front office and ability to develop players.

If the Sox are simply in that conversation I'll be very happy.

4 hours ago, poppysox said:

We are well underway with putting together the best team of the next decade.  Keep the faith.

We definitely have a handful of outstanding players. Lot of work to be done to fill in the holes. Great nucleus though, assuming Timmy's injury was a fluke and he'll stay healthy and Eloy and Moncada stay healthy. Ricky has some pieces to work with. Two outstanding starters right now and one outstanding closer.

5 minutes ago, greg775 said:

We definitely have a handful of outstanding players. Lot of work to be done to fill in the holes. Great nucleus though, assuming Timmy's injury was a fluke and he'll stay healthy and Eloy and Moncada stay healthy. Ricky has some pieces to work with. Two outstanding starters right now and one outstanding closer.

Are you team rebuild yet after seeing what Yoan, Gio, Cease, and Eloy are doing? 

Just now, ron883 said:

Are you team rebuild yet after seeing what Yoan, Gio, Cease, and Eloy are doing? 

Honestly, at this point there is only one team and it's team rebuild.  

14 hours ago, ron883 said:

Are you team rebuild yet after seeing what Yoan, Gio, Cease, and Eloy are doing? 

I"m team "White Sox." Never was in favor of tanking.

On 6/30/2019 at 10:49 PM, hi8is said:

The Astros have a .475 winning percentage but went to the World Series twice. Same with the .472 Royals.

Moral of the story, winning percentage over a decade isn’t the best metric.

Edit: We’ve also sucked, that’s also true.

What two years did the Astros go to the World Series?

3 hours ago, Juschill said:

What two years did the Astros go to the World Series?

Potato salad.

On 7/3/2019 at 12:03 PM, turnin' two said:

Over the last 10 years, the AL Central has had the AL team in the World Series 4 of those 10 series.

This is not always an indicator how good the division is. When the Sox won their first division with 99 wins in 1983, they were the only team with an above .500 record. This division just hasn't been all that strong. Not having one division title this decade was not a pleasant experience.