20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They need to sign at least three “quality” players to three or more year contracts...something like the Robertson/Cabrera/LaRoche trio and trading for Samardzija offseason, in terms of potential impact of incoming players.

(Except not have any of  the moves work out well.)

 

Such as 3 of the 4 you mentioned above.  That's the problem.  And the Samardzija trade was just poorly intended and executed.

Edited August 10, 20196 yr by GreenSox

Hahn has continued to profess the team's intention to be aggressive this winter. Whether that means a big-time free-agent signing or a big-time trade acquisition remains unknown, but there's an expectation of meaningful activity that could go a long way toward getting the White Sox into the winning portion of this effort in 2020.

There will surely be skepticism that the good times could come that soon, and there are plenty of question marks in this equation.

There's excitement about Kopech's return from Tommy John surgery, but his next start will be just the fifth of his big league career. Robert and Madrigal will be getting their first tastes of the majors. Growing pains for those young players - like the ones Giolito and Moncada went through in their first full major league seasons - would not be unexpected.

Meanwhile, despite a good run of late from Reynaldo Lopez, questions exist about his consistency. Despite showing flashes of his star ability, Jimenez is going through those aforementioned growing pains in 2019. Despite All-Star appearances, Jose Abreu and James McCann have gone through second-half slumps, though both players had more success on the just-completed road trip through Philadelphia and Detroit. Despite a recent offensive adjustment that's working well in Triple-A, Zack Collins struggled in his brief big league stint earlier this season and still faces questions about his defense.

These are all valid concerns, and it's possible they could conspire to push winning time back another season for the White Sox.

https://sports.yahoo.com/white-sox-ready-win-2020-181511660.html

 

39 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Hahn has continued to profess the team's intention to be aggressive this winter. Whether that means a big-time free-agent signing or a big-time trade acquisition remains unknown, but there's an expectation of meaningful activity that could go a long way toward getting the White Sox into the winning portion of this effort in 2020.

There will surely be skepticism that the good times could come that soon, and there are plenty of question marks in this equation.

There's excitement about Kopech's return from Tommy John surgery, but his next start will be just the fifth of his big league career. Robert and Madrigal will be getting their first tastes of the majors. Growing pains for those young players - like the ones Giolito and Moncada went through in their first full major league seasons - would not be unexpected.

Meanwhile, despite a good run of late from Reynaldo Lopez, questions exist about his consistency. Despite showing flashes of his star ability, Jimenez is going through those aforementioned growing pains in 2019. Despite All-Star appearances, Jose Abreu and James McCann have gone through second-half slumps, though both players had more success on the just-completed road trip through Philadelphia and Detroit. Despite a recent offensive adjustment that's working well in Triple-A, Zack Collins struggled in his brief big league stint earlier this season and still faces questions about his defense.

These are all valid concerns, and it's possible they could conspire to push winning time back another season for the White Sox.

https://sports.yahoo.com/white-sox-ready-win-2020-181511660.html

 

Sadly, that's just something you're gonna have to roll the die on. 

Kopech has to prove he's going to be a quality addition to the rotation or that sets the rebuild back considerably. Lopez is kind of a luxury given he's basically pitching for a spot the rest of the way. I think he's finding his way to more consistent success. 

McCann slumped but appears to be coming out of it and still provides a very quality plate presence. Abreu, I just think we're gonna have to roll with for now. Vaughn is a hopeful 2021 addition to the ML roster.  So there really isn't much in terms of immediate options outside of him.

The Cubs were fortunate in 2015, because a lot of their young talent they inserted hit the ground running and it aided in their route to a 97 win season and a trip to the NLCS. The Sox need to hope Madrigal and Robert make similar impacts and some of their FA's are winners, rather than whiffs. If not, then 2020 is most likely a flash but fizzle season, where they are competitive, but likely don't have enough juice in August/September to make the push towards the playoffs.

33 minutes ago, Dan of Steel said:

Sadly, that's just something you're gonna have to roll the die on. 

Kopech has to prove he's going to be a quality addition to the rotation or that sets the rebuild back considerably. Lopez is kind of a luxury given he's basically pitching for a spot the rest of the way. I think he's finding his way to more consistent success. 

McCann slumped but appears to be coming out of it and still provides a very quality plate presence. Abreu, I just think we're gonna have to roll with for now. Vaughn is a hopeful 2021 addition to the ML roster.  So there really isn't much in terms of immediate options outside of him.

The Cubs were fortunate in 2015, because a lot of their young talent they inserted hit the ground running and it aided in their route to a 97 win season and a trip to the NLCS. The Sox need to hope Madrigal and Robert make similar impacts and some of their FA's are winners, rather than whiffs. If not, then 2020 is most likely a flash but fizzle season, where they are competitive, but likely don't have enough juice in August/September to make the push towards the playoffs.

I think I put this in the other thread. I don’t know what JRs true salary roof is, but the trick this offseason is to make this team a roster that can compete if a good amount of things go right...but to leave them room to maneuver before 2021 if some things go wrong. They have money to sign like 4 or 5 big deals, but truly they should sign 1 or 2 multi year deals and fill a couple spots with only 1 year deals. That way they have a possibly competitive roster but they have room leftover so that they can make moves before 2021 to fill in whatever goes wrong next year.

If you commit too much this offseason it gets a lot harder in 2021 because Moncada, Lopez, and Giolito all hit arbitration in 2021 and even though his expensive contract will end, Colome will be a free agent that needs to be replaced also. So if you overcommit now and don’t win that division, it could hurt the team for more than next year.

On 7/26/2019 at 10:30 AM, caulfield12 said:

Very realistic if it’s approached like they did with Robertson, LaRoche and Cabrera.

If they just wait until the last minute instead of picking those guys off one by one in an organized November/December blitz of signings, they’re going to be left sorting out the Jake Odorizzis, Jonathan Schoops and CJ Crons of the free agent barrel.

If we target players like Grandal, Wood and Bumgarner they should be well within our easy to live with price range.  We have a lot of star type guys within the current organization and I like filling in around them with nice complimentary pieces.  Certainly it would be nice to get Cole but don't get shut out on the others while we hope in vain for a "Star".

If I’m Hahn, I’m going hard after Grandal & Wheeler right out of the gate unless I’m prepared to go 6/$200M for Cole.

19 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If we target players like Grandal, Wood and Bumgarner they should be well within our easy to live with price range.  We have a lot of star type guys within the current organization and I like filling in around them with nice complimentary pieces.  Certainly it would be nice to get Cole but don't get shut out on the others while we hope in vain for a "Star".

I don’t trust Wood at all in the AL.

On 7/26/2019 at 9:30 AM, caulfield12 said:

Very realistic if it’s approached like they did with Robertson, LaRoche and Cabrera.

If they just wait until the last minute instead of picking those guys off one by one in an organized November/December blitz of signings, they’re going to be left sorting out the Jake Odorizzis, Jonathan Schoops and CJ Crons of the free agent barrel.

I would overpay Grandal right from the start to try and get him to sign. Would something like 3 for $68 get it done?

With Grandal already on board, the other targets are more likely to join if we hit them with competitive offers. 

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If I’m Hahn, I’m going hard after Grandal & Wheeler right out of the gate unless I’m prepared to go 6/$200M for Cole.

Sign the first two then wait in line for your shot at Cole.

33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If I’m Hahn, I’m going hard after Grandal & Wheeler right out of the gate unless I’m prepared to go 6/$200M for Cole.

I missed this post before posting a similar thought. 

I want Grandal, Wheeler, Betances, Gordon, and any other SP/swing man. With those five additions, along with Robert and Madrigal, I think we make the playoffs next year. 

43 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If I’m Hahn, I’m going hard after Grandal & Wheeler right out of the gate unless I’m prepared to go 6/$200M for Cole.

What's your plan for RF and the bullpen in this case? 

I don't think it's a bad set of signings I just know we also need a RF and bullpen help, and if those are the 2 positions you want to spend on, you might miss targets at others. 

8 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I missed this post before posting a similar thought. 

I want Grandal, Wheeler, Betances, Gordon, and any other SP/swing man. With those five additions, along with Robert and Madrigal, I think we make the playoffs next year. 

What sort of contract numbers do you think Betances gets? I did a bit of googling and while it depends on what he does down the stretch, I did find this quote just by googling Dellin Betances Free Agent

Quote

If Betances comes back and looks like the same pitcher Yankee fans have watched since 2014, then he could justifiably ask for a big pay day. Kenley Jansen and Aroldis Chapman both signed five-year deals in the $80-$86 million range. Betances has been one of the league’s best relievers for half a decade. It would be within reason to see him ask to be compensated as such.

 

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What sort of contract numbers do you think Betances gets? I did a bit of googling and while it depends on what he does down the stretch, I did find this quote just by googling Dellin Betances Free Agent

 

I was thinking something in the range of 3 for $40, but with the quote you provided, now I’m not so sure. 

17 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I was thinking something in the range of 3 for $40, but with the quote you provided, now I’m not so sure. 

If he struggles down the stretch I could buy that. If he pitches 6 shutdown innings in the ALCS and is key to beating that Astros lineup, dude will make a fortune. Would you give him 3/$40 if he comes back, pitches for a month, and has an ERA near 6?

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he struggles down the stretch I could buy that. If he pitches 6 shutdown innings in the ALCS and is key to beating that Astros lineup, dude will make a fortune. Would you give him 3/$40 if he comes back, pitches for a month, and has an ERA near 6?

That’s a great question. I’m not really sure. I guess it would depend on examining the results and figuring out the reason (velocity drop?, bad luck in a small sample?,  etc.). But I know that’s just my way of skating around your question.

24 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

That’s a great question. I’m not really sure. I guess it would depend on examining the results and figuring out the reason (velocity drop?, bad luck in a small sample?,  etc.). But I know that’s just my way of skating around your question.

I'd be genuinely interested in him too and if he's good down the stretch I'd go for a high contract, but I'm willing to say that I'll take cheaper options at RF and C to get him and a starting pitcher (and yes if he looks ok I'd go for Betances and Cole and the White Sox won't do that). 

2 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

I missed this post before posting a similar thought. 

I want Grandal, Wheeler, Betances, Gordon, and any other SP/swing man. With those five additions, along with Robert and Madrigal, I think we make the playoffs next year. 

Yeah, that’s very similar to what I’m looking to accomplish, although I may look at the trade market to solve our RF problems.

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

What's your plan for RF and the bullpen in this case? 

I don't think it's a bad set of signings I just know we also need a RF and bullpen help, and if those are the 2 positions you want to spend on, you might miss targets at others. 

Right now, I’d either go for a stopgap in RF like Gordon or I’d target someone like Nimmo via trade.  We can definitely sign a high-end reliever with Colome & Herrera coming off the books after the 2020 season.

I would be more than ok with staying with McCann at catcher, and using the available resources for 2 SP's, a RF and a reliever or two.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another offseason like last years. Trying for a top player not getting them and then simply signing 1 year guys. Hahn walked back his accelerated timeline that he first talked about 3 years ago. Now he's talking about 5-7 years. Doesn't seem like he's in a rush. 

Ok I listened to the podcast. It was a good podcast and I like most of what i heard. It was mostly what we knew or expected.

His comments about Sox fans on the internet and social media were interesting. Makes me think he definitely reads stuff around here. If so, hi Rick!

One thing though. Rick Hahn can piss off with his 5-7 year comment. The Cubs were in the NLCS in Theo's 4th year in Chicago, and they didn't start with anywhere near the assets that the Sox started this rebuild with.

I'm hoping the 5-7 year comment was intended to temper expectations, while they quietly plan on going for it this winter. I know we're not getting Gerritt Cole, but everything else could and should be on the table. I have a feeling the Sox are going to be one of the most active teams, both in trade and free agency.

11 hours ago, Sarava said:

I would be more than ok with staying with McCann at catcher, and using the available resources for 2 SP's, a RF and a reliever or two.

I don’t think you can assume McCann will be a good enough starter next season just yet. His numbers after the Allstar break are more like his career stats.  Adding Grandal and a decent RF would make a huge impact to the lineup for next season, along with Robert and Madrigal joining it shortly after the season starts.

The Sox need 2 starting pitchers, a RF, a catcher, and bullpen help.

59 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I don’t think you can assume McCann will be a good enough starter next season just yet. His numbers after the Allstar break are more like his career stats.  Adding Grandal and a decent RF would make a huge impact to the lineup for next season, along with Robert and Madrigal joining it shortly after the season starts.

The Sox need 2 starting pitchers, a RF, a catcher, and bullpen help.

Spot on!

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I don’t think you can assume McCann will be a good enough starter next season just yet. His numbers after the Allstar break are more like his career stats.  Adding Grandal and a decent RF would make a huge impact to the lineup for next season, along with Robert and Madrigal joining it shortly after the season starts.

The Sox need 2 starting pitchers, a RF, a catcher, and bullpen help.

Of course you can't assume that. But they're not going to upgrade half the team. It might be a bit of a pick your poison thing. If they sign Grandal to replace McCann, but ignore signing a big name pitcher, are you fine with that then?

12 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Of course you can't assume that. But they're not going to upgrade half the team. It might be a bit of a pick your poison thing. If they sign Grandal to replace McCann, but ignore signing a big name pitcher, are you fine with that then?

If they're still able to nab Wheeler, sure. 

Cole and Strasburg are going to be hard, Bumgarner might stay put. They need to make sure they make upgrades at a few spots and then go after Cole or Strasburg. Hahn can't go all in again and be left holding Mr Johnson in February. If they blow their entire wad this offseason, so be it. 

Edited August 11, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman