Sox changing up their amateur scouting department according to Mark Gonzales

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That change didnt happen in 2007. They changed their velocity readings at the start of 2017, and by year end it didnt have a positive impact on velocity. It's the same data sets and you misunderstood what you read.

Yeah, I know it happened in 2010. 2007 was roughly the first year on that graph. 

[chitownsportsfan]

I think @ptatc and other trainers would readily tell you that just in the last 20 years there's been a revolution in the science of performance -- in more ways than one.  This has naturally led to increased velocity.  Just read the opening chapter of The MVP Machine it's all just physics.  Faster you rotate your arm, faster that ball is coming out.  And with video analysis, force measuring sensors, portability of technology and scalability (not to even mention diet and advanced physical training) -- it's all come together to help athletes run faster, jump higher and throw baseballs harder than ever on human earth.

Edited July 25, 2019 by chitownsportsfan

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Have they changed radar guns that scouts use.

They have handheld ones like the cops.  They just point it to a different spot. (right in front of the mound vs. in front of home plate) 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think @ptatc and other trainers would readily tell you that just in the last 20 years there's been a revolution in the science of performance -- in more ways than one.  This has naturally led to increased velocity.  Just read the opening chapter of The MVP Machine it's all just physics.  Faster you rotate your arm, faster that ball is coming out.  And with video analysis, force measuring sensors, portability of technology and scalability -- it's all come together to help athletes run faster, jump higher and throw baseballs harder than ever on human earth.

I love sports that are a giant physics problem. 

I have gravitated toward baseball, hockey and golf because there are a lot of aspects to physics. 

This is actually chemistry related, but humid air is less dense than dry air. 

because: 

N2= ~28g molar mass

O2: ~32g molar mass 

H2O: 18g molar mass

which explains why the ball goes further on humid days. 

The only things that will affect it are humidity and altitude. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah, I know it happened in 2010. 2007 was roughly the first year on that graph. 

What happened in 2010? 

Do you read posts before you respond to them?

Velocity had been on a steady climb for more than a decade. It has nothing to do with this stuff you keep citing incorrectly.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What happened in 2010? 

Do you read posts before you respond to them?

Velocity had been on a steady climb for more than a decade. It has nothing to do with this stuff you keep citing incorrectly.

Yes. Always. I'm not an idiot. 

There was also a fangraphs article about how average pitcher velocity had plateaued a few years back. It didn't go up, but it didn't go down either. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[southsideirish71]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

They have handheld ones like the cops.  They just point it to a different spot. (right in front of the mound vs. in front of home plate) 

This isn't remotely correct.  Radar guns have been used by scouts for a long time.   They aim them at the pitcher usually from behind the plate.  It picks up the highest number just like it did back 25 years ago.  The gun at the ballpark might have a different orientation but the scouts still use a handheld gun like they have done forever.   Its not like the scouts are reporting x player at the game is throwing 98 when the gun says different.  

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think @ptatc and other trainers would readily tell you that just in the last 20 years there's been a revolution in the science of performance -- in more ways than one.  This has naturally led to increased velocity.  Just read the opening chapter of The MVP Machine it's all just physics.  Faster you rotate your arm, faster that ball is coming out.  And with video analysis, force measuring sensors, portability of technology and scalability (not to even mention diet and advanced physical training) -- it's all come together to help athletes run faster, jump higher and throw baseballs harder than ever on human earth.

While I don't disagree with your concept you are confusing the title "trainer." The medical athletic trainer is the person who runs on the field for injuries and is involved in the evaluation and rehab of injuries. The strength and conditioning coach "trainer" is more involved in just the sport science and performance. 

The 2 do blend together somewhat but the vast majority of the medical staff isn't involved in the performance aspect (except post injury) and the Strength and conditioning group doesn't have the medical training.

[caulfield12]

“But it was after those two drafts drew sharp criticism from the outside that White Sox leadership strongly endorsed Hostetler and had him run their two most important drafts of the rebuild — where they picked fourth and third overall — and to more favorable reviews. Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn both have lived up to the billing so far, have been widely evaluated as top-50 global prospects, and have clear paths to becoming franchise cornerstones at their respective positions.

Despite both being polished college bats, the last two drafts have also found the Sox displaying newfound creativity and a willingness to go overslot to land higher-end high school talent. Going overslot to land Bryce Bush and Lency Delgado in 2018 proved to be just a prelude to centering a large chunk of the non-Vaughn draft budget on landing prep right-handers Matthew Thompson and Andrew Dalquist, to squeeze value out of a pool that was deemed to be light on college pitching.”

From theathletic.com

 

Mike Shirley and Garrett Guest are apparently the two names to watch inside the organization, the two assistant directors for this past year’s draft.

Interesting that the spin so far is that it’s not a demotion 1) because trades and FA will figure in more the next two years, 2) the draft picks won’t be in the Top 10 much longer and 3) the last two paragraphs highlighted above.

 

“The quickest and likeliest way to fill it would be internal promotion, which is how Hostetler initially got the job in 2015, when he was promoted from assistant scouting director to replace Doug Laumann, who similarly still holds a senior advisor role in the White Sox front office. Mike Shirley and Garrett Guest served as Hostetler’s assistant directors for this past draft.”

 

 

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I love sports that are a giant physics problem. 

I have gravitated toward baseball, hockey and golf because there are a lot of aspects to physics. 

My first few lectures in my biomechanics courses are all reviews of the physics of forces and vectors. The students hate those physics problems on their exams. They don't get it ntil later that the body is nothing more than the sum of the forces and vectors placed upon it and the ones it generates.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

While I don't disagree with your concept you are confusing the title "trainer." The medical athletic trainer is the person who runs on the field for injuries and is involved in the evaluation and rehab of injuries. The strength and conditioning coach "trainer" is more involved in just the sport science and performance. 

The 2 do blend together somewhat but the vast majority of the medical staff isn't involved in the performance aspect (except post injury) and the Strength and conditioning group doesn't have the medical training.

thanks, physio.  what is it about baseball boards and pedantry?  never mind.  don't answer that.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

My first few lectures in my biomechanics courses are all reviews of the physics of forces and vectors. The students hate those physics problems on their exams. They don't get it ntil later that the body is nothing more than the sum of the forces and vectors placed upon it and the ones it generates.

I could talk about theoretical astrophysics for hours on end, and never get bored. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-moving-forward-with-mlb-draft-plans-c272308110

Mike Shirley is national cross checker and has been with the White Sox as a scout forever (lol).  Most interestingly, he signed Getz.

Outfielder Mike Shirley was selected by the Cleveland Indians in the 45th round of the 1989 amateur draft and played in the Indians' chain from 1990-1992. Shirley also spent 1995-1996 with the Anderson Lawmen. 

After his playing days, Shirley has been a Chicago White Sox scout. He was involved in the singings of Clayton Richard, John Shelby III, Chris Getz, Matthew Long, John Ely, Brian Omogrosso, Josh Phegley, Tyler Kuhn, Nate Jones, Charles Leesman and Jake Petricka among others.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

thanks, physio.  what is it about baseball boards and pedantry?  never mind.  don't answer that.

Sorry it wasn't meant that way. Just that when people blame the "trainer" for the condition or preparation of an athlete, they continually refer the the athletic training staff with Brain Ball and his group and it is wholly incorrect.

One group is medically based and licensed, the other is not. As I am a licensed physio and athletic trainer but have never been a strength/ condition coach. So it's not pedantry.

Edited July 25, 2019 by ptatc

[chitownsportsfan]

 

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

“But it was after those two drafts drew sharp criticism from the outside that White Sox leadership strongly endorsed Hostetler and had him run their two most important drafts of the rebuild — where they picked fourth and third overall — and to more favorable reviews. Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn both have lived up to the billing so far, have been widely evaluated as top-50 global prospects, and have clear paths to becoming franchise cornerstones at their respective positions.

Despite both being polished college bats, the last two drafts have also found the Sox displaying newfound creativity and a willingness to go overslot to land higher-end high school talent. Going overslot to land Bryce Bush and Lency Delgado in 2018 proved to be just a prelude to centering a large chunk of the non-Vaughn draft budget on landing prep right-handers Matthew Thompson and Andrew Dalquist, to squeeze value out of a pool that was deemed to be light on college pitching.”

From theathletic.com

 

Mike Shirley and Garrett Guest are apparently the two names to watch inside the organization, the two assistant directors for this past year’s draft.

Interesting that the spin so far is that it’s not a demotion 1) because trades and FA will figure in more the next two years, 2) the draft picks won’t be in the Top 10 much longer and 3) the last two paragraphs highlighted above.

 

“The quickest and likeliest way to fill it would be internal promotion, which is how Hostetler initially got the job in 2015, when he was promoted from assistant scouting director to replace Doug Laumann, who similarly still holds a senior advisor role in the White Sox front office. Mike Shirley and Garrett Guest served as Hostetler’s assistant directors for this past draft.”

 

 

leave it to you to bring the conversation on topic.

the critical line there is it's likely to an "internal promotion".  This is very on brand, the White Sox Way.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I could talk about theoretical astrophysics for hours on end, and never get bored. 

That is not taught in my courses.

[caulfield12]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=guest-001den

And Garrett Guest is a 37 year old from Providence Catholic who was drafted in the now non-existent 49th round as a scrappy 2B/3B and whose career topped out at Winston-Salem in 2006.

[ptatc]

14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I love sports that are a giant physics problem. 

I have gravitated toward baseball, hockey and golf because there are a lot of aspects to physics. 

This is actually chemistry related, but humid air is less dense than dry air. 

because: 

N2= ~28g molar mass

O2: ~32g molar mass 

H2O: 18g molar mass

which explains why the ball goes further on humid days. 

The only things that will affect it are humidity and altitude. 

Temperature also factors into this equation especially at higher altitudes.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

 

leave it to you to bring the conversation on topic.

the critical line there is it's likely to an "internal promotion".  This is very on brand, the White Sox Way.

At this point, I would almost be elated to see Jim Thome named but it’s way too much work for a family man who’s already set for life financially...somehow this Shirley dude who signed Chris Getz makes almost too much sense not to happen.

The list of his other signings is like a wasteland of Sox mired in mediocrity for the past 15 years.  When Clayton Richard and Nate Jones are your two biggest successes in life, well, why should it be surprising at all when he gets the nod?

[SoxAce]

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Outfielder Mike Shirley was selected by the Cleveland Indians in the 45th round of the 1989 amateur draft and played in the Indians' chain from 1990-1992. Shirley also spent 1995-1996 with the Anderson Lawmen. 

After his playing days, Shirley has been a Chicago White Sox scout. He was involved in the singings of Clayton Richard, John Shelby III, Chris Getz, Matthew Long, John Ely, Brian Omogrosso, Josh Phegley, Tyler Kuhn, Nate Jones, Charles Leesman and Jake Petricka among others.

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Temperature also factors into this equation especially at higher altitudes.

Yup. At Higher temperatures, the air can hold more water vapor. 

[Jack Parkman]

14 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That is not taught in my courses.

Of course not. I was just making a comment. 

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Of course not. I was just making a comment. 

Sorry, meant as a joke.

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yup. At Higher temperatures, the air can hold more water vapor. 

Also becomes more unstable and rough as opposed to cooler air which is more stable.

[ChiSox1917]

5 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Theo has nothing to show for pretty much all of his drafts with the Cubs outside of Bryant. The one other top player he traded to the Sox(Cease) 

What I ask for is to get one guy that looks like a player, per year, on average. You can have 4 shitty drafts and an awesome one where you get 5 guys and that is ok. 

This is a completely unrealistic expectation of any front office