We’re great at finding scapegoats, not so great at identifying talent.

Now we have to be stubborn and prove that Renteria can win at the big league level, or that Cooper hasn’t lost it.

Who suffers?  The fans, of course.

Edited October 2, 20196 yr by caulfield12

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

We’re great at finding scapegoats, not so great at identifying talent.

Now we have to be stubborn and prove that Renteria can win at the big league level, or that Cooper hasn’t lost it.

Who suffers?  The fans, of course.

That the cubs found Rickie wanting when they were serious about winning says nothing good about the Sox and Rickie.

1 minute ago, Tony said:

If they have the type of offseason we all expect, the hitting coach won’t matter much. The Sox have collected a bunch of players that don’t get on base, I don’t know how much of that is on the hitting coach. Obtain players that know how to have long AB’s, get on base, and your hitting coach looks like a genius. 

Outside of the obvious four youngsters, where is the talent on the big league roster?

McCann and Leury were the 5th/6th best hitters.  The Astros have more talent just at their infield/DH positions than our entire positional player roster.

Fwiw, I guess they want a new coach to work with Madrigal and Robert, but what the heck was it that Steverson was supposedly inculcating on a system wide basis?  

33 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Requirements for promotion to the big league team.  

1.) Did you play for the whitesox?

2.) Did you coach in the minors for the whitesox?

3.) Have you passed the 15 year mark in the organization?
 

I agree with numbers 1 and 2.  All the more reason Omar Vizquel is the next White Sox manager, for better or for worse.

Edited October 2, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

4 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

All the more reason Omar Vizquel is the next manager, for better or for worse.

Omar should be up right now as a bench coach working with TA and the rest of our infielders.  You have one of the best fielders that played the game in the system.  Why is he not up right now working with our young players.   Ricky will remain the manager until he wants to leave or JR is no longer the owner.   

Edited October 2, 20196 yr by southsideirish71

22 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

And this analysis is based on what.  

His memory of Sox pitching from 2005.  ?

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We’re great at finding scapegoats,

We are?

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

That the cubs found Rickie wanting when they were serious about winning says nothing good about the Sox and Rickie.

Hell, at this point, I’d roll the dice with Jirschele...because the Renteria/Vizquel style doesn’t work for any team but the 2014-15 Royals.  Certainly not MLB Version 2019.

We don’t have more than a couple of capable bunters or situational hitters (Madrigal is pretty much it), and two of the best stolen base threats in Moncada and Robert are largely in a “no fly zone” due to fear of potential injury.

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Hell, at this point, I’d roll the dice with Jirschele...because the Renteria/Vizquel style doesn’t work for any team but the 2014-15 Royals.  Certainly not MLB Version 2019.

We don’t have more than a couple of capable bunters or situational hitters (Madrigal is pretty much it), and two of the best stolen base threats in Moncada and Robert are largely in a “no fly zone” due to fear of potential injury.



I look forward to more TA batting 7th.  Yolmer playing instead of Madrigal.  Moncada bunting.  And the other orders of chaos that Ricky and his gut will bring.  

3 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

We are?

Sure, as long as it’s not JR, KW or Hahn.

Renteria and/or Cooper will be next on the chopping block if they disappoint in 2020 (see Ventura post 2016).

And the concept of both Abreu and Renteria having earned lifetime contracts is baffling, at best.

 

Lisle being pushed out so quickly is yet another sign the analytics side isn’t making much real progress...especially in light of the rants by Renteria and Cooper as the season wound down (Stone as well.)

20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We don’t have more than a couple of capable bunters or situational hitters (Madrigal is pretty much it), and two of the best stolen base threats in Moncada and Robert are largely in a “no fly zone” due to fear of potential injury.

Vizquel was one of the more aggressive managers in the Southern league as far as running/stealing with his players (sometimes to a fault). He does alot of dumb bunting, but it's not nearly on Ricky's level. I'll guarantee Anderson, Robert, Madrigal, Moncada, etc. all will have 20+ SBs under him, barring injuries. 

Edited October 2, 20196 yr by SoxAce

Lisle wasn’t making much of a impact as he was bouncing from affiliate to affiliate. Was firing him the way to go now, they should’ve given him a stable post. 

I wouldn’t be mad if they hired Frank Menechino. He seems to be able to tap into guys’ power.  

45 minutes ago, Juschill said:

The Bulls have actually hired some good coaches that they somehow ran out of town ... Phil Jackson, Scott Skiles, Tom Thibodeau.

 

The White Sox ran a Hall of Fame manager out of town.  The rest of their managers have been pretty shabby.

 

Eh, Thibs and Skiles aren't that good. They both had some massive flaws that ended up doing them in. 

Thibs was very good at designing defenses, but he was so insanely inept in terms of offense. He also wasn't all that well liked by his players. Big reason why he was canned from the Wolves.

Skiles was similar, but less defensively savvy and more of an ass. 

The problem with the Bulls is who they replaced those two with; Vinnie Del Negro and Fred Hoiberg. Both questionable at best hires that proved to be disastrous. 

And as for Ozzie (I assume that's the HOF manager you're referring to), I'd say he ran himself out of town by losing his marbles and making tons of extremely ridiculous and controversal comments. Combine that with waning on-field results, I'd say it was time to move on from Ozzie. But like the Bulls, the problem was who they replaced him with. 

Overall, neither of Jerry's orgs have a good track record of making quality hires recently. 

18 minutes ago, Dan of Steel said:

Eh, Thibs and Skiles aren't that good. They both had some massive flaws that ended up doing them in. 

Thibs was very good at designing defenses, but he was so insanely inept in terms of offense. He also wasn't all that well liked by his players. Big reason why he was canned from the Wolves.

Skiles was similar, but less defensively savvy and more of an ass. 

The problem with the Bulls is who they replaced those two with; Vinnie Del Negro and Fred Hoiberg. Both questionable at best hires that proved to be disastrous. 

And as for Ozzie (I assume that's the HOF manager you're referring to), I'd say he ran himself out of town by losing his marbles and making tons of extremely ridiculous and controversal comments. Combine that with waning on-field results, I'd say it was time to move on from Ozzie. But like the Bulls, the problem was who they replaced him with. 

Overall, neither of Jerry's orgs have a good track record of making quality hires recently. 

I thought it was La Russa.

1 hour ago, southsideirish71 said:

Well I don't think any of the hitters went to their HS coach to fix them like a pitcher did.  Why again is Cooper still here.

 

I don’t disagree, but we all know KW was going to keep his dugout snitch around.

Seeing Marcus Semien with an 8.1 WAR gives me a sad.  

5 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Seeing Marcus Semien with an 8.1 WAR gives me a sad.  

Exhibit A of a player the Sox drafted, couldn't develop, gave up on, and basically gave him away in a horrid trade.

1 hour ago, Dan of Steel said:

 

And as for Ozzie (I assume that's the HOF manager you're referring to), I'd say he ran himself out of town by losing his marbles and making tons of extremely ridiculous and controversal comments. 

Er, there was this guy named Tony LaRussa that started his managing career here and managed here for 8 seasons before they had the great idea to make that drunken buffoon Harrelson the GM of the team.  Among his better ideas were firing a Hall of Fame manager and attempting to turn a Hall of Fame catcher into a left fielder.

(I thought Thibs and Skiles got more out of their teams than they had any business getting.)

 

59 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

Exhibit A of a player the Sox drafted, couldn't develop, gave up on, and basically gave him away in a horrid trade.

They drafted him in the 6th round and developed him into an interesting asset and used him in part to acquire a pretty valuable arm. 

Edited October 3, 20196 yr by Blackout Friday

4 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

They had one of the lowest walk rates and one of the highest k rates and were bottom 4 or 5 in HR.  That's an issue.

Other than that they were awesome .....

23 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

They drafted him in the 6th round and developed him into an interesting asset and used him in part to acquire a pretty valuable arm. 

You mean the guy that had a whopping 79 ERA+ and led the league in hits, ER, and HR?

2 hours ago, Dan of Steel said:

Eh, Thibs and Skiles aren't that good. They both had some massive flaws that ended up doing them in. 

Thibs was very good at designing defenses, but he was so insanely inept in terms of offense. He also wasn't all that well liked by his players. Big reason why he was canned from the Wolves.

Skiles was similar, but less defensively savvy and more of an ass. 

The problem with the Bulls is who they replaced those two with; Vinnie Del Negro and Fred Hoiberg. Both questionable at best hires that proved to be disastrous. 

And as for Ozzie (I assume that's the HOF manager you're referring to), I'd say he ran himself out of town by losing his marbles and making tons of extremely ridiculous and controversal comments. Combine that with waning on-field results, I'd say it was time to move on from Ozzie. But like the Bulls, the problem was who they replaced him with. 

Overall, neither of Jerry's orgs have a good track record of making quality hires recently. 

LaRussa, Leyland and Francona...

1 hour ago, southsideirish71 said:

Seeing Marcus Semien with an 8.1 WAR gives me a sad.  

Avi leading the Rays to a playoff win...

1 hour ago, bubba phillips said:

Exhibit A of a player the Sox drafted, couldn't develop, gave up on, and basically gave him away in a horrid trade.

The Sox never gave up on him. That's bullshit. A lot of us hated that trade at the time because Semien showed tons of potential. They made the wrong call going with Micah Johnson, not giving up on Semien. 

Nobody is going to turn this roster into a patient one. Moncada is the only one with a really high obp profile, and it was obvious he made an effort to be more aggressive because he got jobbed so much last year with 2 strikes.