11 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

If this is true, then offer Stras 210 million and Ryu 70 million. 

This all day every day.

2 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

This all day every day.

I think I would still take cole and just play around with the 1 yr/10mill pool of pitchers.

4 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Look at his second half numbers... he definitely figured something out. Plus I think now he'll be even better with the Astros stuff coming out. You can tell that World Series was in his head for quite some time. Only thing that can stop Darvish potentially is injuries. 

I understand he was very good 2nd half.  However, this guy and injuries seem to go hand in hand  

14 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Is there another small short term contract (like 6-8m) they have that we can absorb in addition?

I'd rather have Q than pay 3/45 for Keuchel.

Chatwood is 12 mill, Kimbrel is 16mil. The others at that price are arb level.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

I think I would still take cole and just play around with the 1 yr/10mill pool of pitchers.

The point is if the Sox don't bid on Cole and were willing to give him 280. You would then take that money and give it to the other 2. 

2 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Look at his second half numbers... he definitely figured something out. Plus I think now he'll be even better with the Astros stuff coming out. You can tell that World Series was in his head for quite some time. Only thing that can stop Darvish potentially is injuries. 

He's 33 years old, and has repeatedly been injured almost every year of his career. He'll be 34 next season, and his signed through his age 37 season.

If he was a FA, he would command no where near 4/81 million; hence why he didn't opt out.

I don't think he suddenly figured something out at 33 - he's always been dominant K-wise when he's on the mound. His problem has always been command and consistency; he had a real nice second half, but I don't think he suddenly became a .77 BB/9 guy with an adjustment at 33 years old but who knows?

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

The point is if the Sox don't bid on Cole and were willing to give him 280. You would then take that money and give it to the other 2. 

Got it.

The sox are so scared of agents it's really quite something. They seem to take it personally when players negotiate with them after they think they've given a fair offer.

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

If only someone had tweeted that this was a bad deal beforehand...

Which isn’t why the Pederson deal blew up, but keep on throwing out this dumb angle!!

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Got it.

The sox are so scared of agents it's really quite something. They seem to take it personally when players negotiate with them after they think they've given a fair offer.

I'm sure they do take it personally when they offer the most money but they're used as a bargaining ploy to get another team to up their offer when there was no intent on signing with the White Sox in the first place. I'm sure every single front office in the world would be bothered by that.

Edited December 9, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Which isn’t why the Pederson deal blew up, but keep on throwing out this dumb angle!!

Not being factitious  but just very curious......what happened with that deal.  I have read all the different narratives but not sure what really happened??

What time do these GMs wake up? I need some MlB news. 

1 minute ago, Orlando said:

What time do these GMs wake up? I need some MlB news. 

Probably eating breakfast and drinking coffee. It's 8:00 am on the West Coast

It's 8M over there, sign people!

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm sure they do take it personally when they offer the most money but they're used as a bargaining ploy to get another team to up their offer when there was no intent on signing with the White Sox in the first place. I'm sure every single front office in the world would be bothered by that.

The White Sox FO characters are incredibly incensed by being called cheap or midmarket or second tier (see Kenny's rants last offseason). Even when they're being cheap and refusing to bid on top guys because they're cheap, they're willing to go to the press and say "We could do this we just don't want to!" because they know they have apologists who will take that and say "See, they're not cheap, they could have been in on Cole if they wanted". 

4 minutes ago, Orlando said:

What time do these GMs wake up? I need some MlB news. 

16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He's 33 years old, and has repeatedly been injured almost every year of his career. He'll be 34 next season, and his signed through his age 37 season.

If he was a FA, he would command no where near 4/81 million; hence why he didn't opt out.

I don't think he suddenly figured something out at 33 - he's always been dominant K-wise when he's on the mound. His problem has always been command and consistency; he had a real nice second half, but I don't think he suddenly became a .77 BB/9 guy with an adjustment at 33 years old but who knows?

I already acknowledged the injury concerns. I think his main problem was all mental personally. Dude is/was just a mental midget IMO. I don't think he'll be as outstanding as his second half numbers either but he won't be as bad as his first half either, so somewhere in the middle. Darvish still has elite spin rate numbers, his velocity numbers are still there and his hard hit numbers are okay (you could argue he should probably use his four seamer more). This isn't even accounting for the Cubs potentially taking on some money (won't be much obviously) just to get rid of a contract and they need to get rid of quite a few. Again the injury concerns are justified, but you could certainly do worse. Btw, I'm not acknowledging that I want Darvish here FYI.

Edited December 9, 20196 yr by SoxAce

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm sure they do take it personally when they offer the most money but they're used as a bargaining ploy to get another team to up their offer when there was no intent on signing with the White Sox in the first place. I'm sure every single front office in the world would be bothered by that.

I'm pretty sure no other good front office in the league would let that affect them not trying to sign a player they want and apparently could make budget for but are scared they'll be negotiated with.

 

 No mention of the Sox.  I could see Boras playing it slow with Castellanos, giving the Cubs time to shed salary.

1 minute ago, SoxAce said:

I already acknowledged the injury concerns. I think his main problem was all mental personally. Dude is/was just a mental midget IMO. I don't think he'll be as outstanding as his second half numbers either but he won't be as bad as his first half either, so somewhere in the middle. Darvish still has elite spin rate numbers, his velocity numbers are still there and his hard hit numbers are okay (you could argue he should probably use his four seamer more). This isn't even accounting for the Cubs potentially taking on some money (won't be much obviously) just to get rid of a contract and they need to get rid of quite a few. Again the injury concerns are justified, but you could certainly do worse. Btw, I'm not acknowledging that I want Darvish here FYI.

I get it, but he's always had those elite numbers. He is the greatest strike out pitcher, by rate, in MLB history. There's no doubt that his stuff can dominate people. I think this trading for Darvish for his age 34-37 seasons isn't exactly a great gamble given all his red flags. I thought it was a risky overpay by the Cubs at the time, and it has become that which is why they're in this position. I'm not sure the White Sox can just take on 81 million in dead money; might as well sign Ryu if you want an aging hurler with injury concerns.

I like Darvish, I just don't think I like him for the tail end of his career. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will learn to pitch as his stuff continues to deteriorate. 

4 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

 No mention of the Sox.  I could see Boras playing it slow with Castellanos, giving the Cubs time to shed salary.

Not happening.

Edited December 9, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

RE: Darvish.  Being the beggar franchise we are, we have to sign risky guys and hope for the best. He might thrive in our low profile environment.

Was Gomez able to speak to Ozuna last night? If so, it seems like it would be pretty easy to shoot down this rumor.  If he's sticking with his "I trust Frank Castillo" line, I would guess this is happening.

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'm pretty sure no other good front office in the league would let that affect them not trying to sign a player they want and apparently could make budget for but are scared they'll be negotiated with.

 

If the White Sox feel there's next to zero chance Cole will come here without a significant overpay from the White Sox then why waste your time? Cole is already going to be "overpaid" in regards to expected salary because of the teams bidding but if you knew you had to overpay that overpay significantly to lure him from the West Coast or the Yankees then why waste your time in the market?

I don't think the Sox would sign him from 7/280 tomorrow - I don't agree with Rosenthal but he surely knows far more than me - but if they would and they don't think Cole would sign for that from the Sox then what's the point?

Edited December 9, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChiSportUpdates/status/1203686341093076992?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1203686341093076992&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soxtalk.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller%3Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FChiSportUpdates%2Fstatus%2F1203686341093076992%3Fs%3D20

Yeah, seems incredibly risky for Boras to wait out the Cubs with a market that could close up really quickly if the other suitors go in a different direction.

I am a fan of waiting the Ozuna/Castellanos markets out until the end, and signing whichever one is stuck out there late in the off-season hoping for a decent deal. I don't think the Sox will do that, and maybe they already got one to agree at a level they wanted.

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, seems incredibly risky for Boras to wait out the Cubs with a market that could close up really quickly if the other suitors go in a different direction.

I am a fan of waiting the Ozuna/Castellanos markets out until the end, and signing whichever one is stuck out there late in the off-season hoping for a decent deal. I don't think the Sox will do that, and maybe they already got one to agree at a level they wanted.

Yeah both of those players I could see becoming the Keuchel of 2018 offseason.