1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You are probably right.  I wouldn’t want to move Vaughn, but that stupid Abreu extension sure made him less of a priority to keep.  Really upsetting.

Yah, Abreu deal was a fucking joke.  Made my blood boil when Hahn cited that as part of the Machado money.  

At the end of the day, the Sox are never going to be free spenders, so overpaying our 1 dimensional DH never made any sense unless blowing by $150M payroll during the window was no longer an issue.  Pretty obvious that isn't the case after the WM.  

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I will believe any deal involving price to the white sox when it happens.  I think its more likely the Red Sox kick in a bunch of money and the Sox send along Vaughn than it is that the Red Sox just hand us Price, Benintendi, pay down the price deal AND we only give up scraps.  Just seems way too good to be true, IMO.  

Hahn is reminding me of a bad hitter who is up with the bases loaded and nobody out.  He has all the advantages yet he approaches the at bat like the pitcher is the one in command of the situation.  The Red Sox need to get some financial flexibility and we can provide that but we do not have to.  We have the upper hand, do not give up anything of value IMHO.

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, Abreu deal was a fucking joke.  Made my blood boil when Hahn cited that as part of the Machado money.  

At the end of the day, the Sox are never going to be free spenders, so overpaying our 1 dimensional DH never made any sense unless blowing by $150M payroll during the window was no longer an issue.  Pretty obvious that isn't the case after the WM.  

Am I crazy to think Price and Benintendi for the next 3 years would be better than Wheeler for the next 5 years if the money is the same (around $118 million)?

Obviously, you would also have to factor in what the Sox would have to give up.

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

Just now, wegner said:

Hahn is reminding me of a bad hitter who is up with the bases loaded and nobody out.  He has all the advantages yet he approaches the at bat like the pitcher is the one in command of the situation.  The Red Sox need to get some financial flexibility and we can provide that but we do not have to.  We have the upper hand, do not give up anything of value IMHO.

True, but apparently there is a line of teams interested in Price, so clearly Hahn doesn't have THAT much leverage.  Bloom can just tell him to get bent.  I just don't see this as anywhere close to a realistic deal for the Sox.  

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, Abreu deal was a fucking joke.  Made my blood boil when Hahn cited that as part of the Machado money.  

At the end of the day, the Sox are never going to be free spenders, so overpaying our 1 dimensional DH never made any sense unless blowing by $150M payroll during the window was no longer an issue.  Pretty obvious that isn't the case after the WM.  

Best believe part of the reason for extending Abreu was to use him as an excuse. Sign a bunch of low year guys to 50 and 70 million and say that was the money being spent. We are dumb enough to believe that had we signed Machado, they still wouldn't have spent money to improve the team this year. 

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

Am I crazy to think Price and Benintendi for the next 3 years would be better than Wheeler for the next 5 years if the money is the same (around $118 million)?

They're projected to combine for like 5ish next year, I can't imagine Wheeler is better than that on projection. 

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

True, but apparently there is a line of teams interested in Price, so clearly Hahn doesn't have THAT much leverage.  Bloom can just tell him to get bent.  I just don't see this as anywhere close to a realistic deal for the Sox.  

Well Slick Rick sat out this free agency anticipating his great conversations would lead to trades. So he better get it done. 

Just now, Moan4Yoan said:

Am I crazy to think Price and Benintendi for the next 3 years would be better than Wheeler for the next 5 years if the money is the same (around $118 million)?

I mean, Benintendi is going to cost more than $22M the next htree years.  His arb projection is $5M this year, likely $8-10M in 2021 and then $15M+ in 2022.  So its more like $130M for those two.  But yah, I guess maybe its close if they literally just dumped Price and Benintendi on us for no return.  But that is not going to happen.  

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

True, but apparently there is a line of teams interested in Price, so clearly Hahn doesn't have THAT much leverage.  Bloom can just tell him to get bent.  I just don't see this as anywhere close to a realistic deal for the Sox.  

If too many other teams are involved and are willing to play ball with the Wrong Sox, let them give up their talent.  In that case, Hahn needs to go out and sign some damn free agent pitching.  David Price is not anywhere close to being a sure fire good thing if we were to get him.

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, Benintendi is going to cost more than $22M the next htree years.  His arb projection is $5M this year, likely $8-10M in 2021 and then $15M+ in 2022.  So its more like $130M for those two.  But yah, I guess maybe its close if they literally just dumped Price and Benintendi on us for no return.  But that is not going to happen.  

Yeah, obviously it’s a no go if they want Vaughn and Madrigal.

If the Sox could get Price and Benintendi, along with some cash, for Collins and some additional prospects (Stiever?), I’d be all over it.

They will sign an avg SP knowing Knova is waiting in the wings. Ideally they find two decent arms and Ivan can be swingman. Show me the money. 

12 minutes ago, wegner said:

Hahn is reminding me of a bad hitter who is up with the bases loaded and nobody out.  He has all the advantages yet he approaches the at bat like the pitcher is the one in command of the situation.  The Red Sox need to get some financial flexibility and we can provide that but we do not have to.  We have the upper hand, do not give up anything of value IMHO.

Absolutely correct. If there is another team, dumb enough to bail out Boston, and agree to give the Red Sox any meaningful prospects, let them be the suckers. This only makes sense, if we get someone extra of value, and don't have to give up anybody who matters.

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by Lillian

1 minute ago, Lillian said:

Absolutely correct. 

I always like when I am on the same side of the argument as you, Lillian...you are always so level headed.

3 minutes ago, wegner said:

I always like when I am on the same side of the argument as you, Lillian...you are always so level headed.

Thanks. Now let's see if Bloom and Hahn agree with us. LOL. They are probably a lot smarter and certainly better informed than we are.

2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Thanks. Now let's see if Bloom and Hahn agree with us. LOL. They are probably a lot smarter and certainly better informed than we are.

Coming from one of the few guy on this board who liked Steele Walker and someone who still hates that trade...yes I guess they are smarter and better informed than me.  Of course that won't stop me from giving my uninformed opinions ?

12 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Absolutely correct. If there is another team, dumb enough to bail out Boston, and agree to give the Red Sox any meaningful prospects, let them be the suckers. This only makes sense, if we get someone extra of value, and don't have to give up anybody who matters.

Bentendo had an OPS+ of 100. So I hope he could pick things back up. 

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Bentendo had an OPS+ of 100. So I hope he could pick things back up. 

I'm not absolutely fixated on Benintendi. My position is that we should be able to get someone, with additional value and usefulness, if we agree to take on all of Price's contract. Is there another realistic candidate, who would be a better choice?

I will bet Walker is very happy to essentially be going home (I think he is from Oklahoma).  That was a good trade for the Sox, for the Rangers, and for Walker. Likewise, Mazara will benefit from a new hitting coach and a new opportunity here.

That's water over the bridge though. If we get AB in a Price deal then Mazara can be our DH and our lineup will be formidable from top to bottom.

 

3 minutes ago, tray said:

I will bet Walker is very happy to essentially be going home (I think he is from Oklahoma).  That was a good trade for the Sox, for the Rangers, and for Walker. Likewise, Mazara will benefit from a new hitting coach and a new opportunity here.

That's water over the bridge though. If we get AB in a Price deal then Mazara can be our DH and our lineup will be formidable from top to bottom.

 

Is Benintendi's arm good enough for RF? I know that he's a better outfielder than Mazara, but Mazara does have a plus arm. Having an adequate arm is more critical in RF, than speed, range and the ability to get good jumps. It would not be acceptable to have opposing teams running with confidence, on our right fielder's arm.

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by Lillian

3 minutes ago, tray said:

I will bet Walker is very happy to essentially be going home (I think he is from Oklahoma).  That was a good trade for the Sox, for the Rangers, and for Walker. Likewise, Mazara will benefit from a new hitting coach and a new opportunity here.

That's water over the bridge though. If we get AB in a Price deal then Mazara can be our DH and our lineup will be formidable from top to bottom.

 

Walker went to OU, but grew up an hour from Arlington. 

2 minutes ago, tray said:

I will bet Walker is very happy to essentially be going home (I think he is from Oklahoma).  That was a good trade for the Sox, for the Rangers, and for Walker. Likewise, Mazara will benefit from a new hitting coach and a new opportunity here.

That's water over the bridge though. If we get AB in a Price deal then Mazara can be our DH and our lineup will be formidable from top to bottom.

 

Fair assessment...I hope they are right and Mazara will work out well with the pro-Latin culture on the Sox and a new hitting coach.  I would 200% rather Mazara succeed here than be able to say I told you so (which I would not anyways because what is the point).

I wish we could detach body parts and construct the player we want, but we have to take these players as they are, with their strengths and weaknesses. AB is a better defender. Mazara has a better arm.....after he gets to a ball in the gap and the runner has already reached base.

8 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I'm not absolutely fixated on Benintendi. My position is that we should be able to get someone, with additional value and usefulness, if we agree to take on all of Price's contract. Is there another realistic candidate, who would be a better choice?

Bryan Mata is their #3 prospect according to Pipeline and a pitcher.  If they want to ask for our top prospects...2 can play that game.

10 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I'm not absolutely fixated on Benintendi. My position is that we should be able to get someone, with additional value and usefulness, if we agree to take on all of Price's contract. Is there another realistic candidate, who would be a better choice?

I've been saying Brandon Workman.

6 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Is Benintendi's arm good enough for RF? I know that he's a better outfielder than Mazara, but Mazara does have a plus arm. Having an adequate arm is more critical in RF, than speed, range and the ability to get good jumps. It would not be acceptable to have opposing teams running with confidence, on our right fielder's arm.

Not that can help us this year and next. We need ready players.