February 24, 20206 yr I think theres an argument to keep him down though. It's not like he has a Kris Bryant year in the minors the year before his ETA.
February 24, 20206 yr 22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I am a very firm believer in acting in good faith as an employer; I think it is a staple of being a quality and respected employer in an industry. I do not feel that baseball FO's are acting in good faith by exploiting service time. Just because something isn't defined thoroughly does not give one an excuse to not act in good faith. Sure, but it is also isn't against the rules as currently constructed. Being a respected employer is great and dandy, but when all other employers in your industry do the same thing that may be a tad cutthroat but its legal, you'd be wise to do it as well because you'll be a competitive disadvantage if you don't. Plus, the Sox have done a ton of good for their guys. They've guaranteed Luis Robert what like $80M before he's even stepped foot on a major league field, and they also paid Eloy a boat load of money he hadn't yet earned. They're doing right by their guys. Just because Madrigal isn't going to start the season in the bigs doesn't mean the Sox aren't doing right by their guys.
February 24, 20206 yr 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Sure, but it is also isn't against the rules as currently constructed. Being a respected employer is great and dandy, but when all other employers in your industry do the same thing that may be a tad cutthroat but its legal, you'd be wise to do it as well because you'll be a competitive disadvantage if you don't. Plus, the Sox have done a ton of good for their guys. They've guaranteed Luis Robert what like $80M before he's even stepped foot on a major league field, and they also paid Eloy a boat load of money he hadn't yet earned. They're doing right by their guys. Just because Madrigal isn't going to start the season in the bigs doesn't mean the Sox aren't doing right by their guys. It is against the rules; I don't know why people keep saying otherwise. It is defined ambiguously so, in terms of contract law, the arbiter has to side with the ownership side because there are no defined terms to determine "readiness." This was an oversight by the MLBPA, but it doesn't mean it should give ownership the right to act in bad faith. It's similar to the players escaping punishment with the sign stealing situation; it "technically" was not against the rules for the players because it wasn't agreed upon within the CBA. It was very obviously wrong, though. I agree the Sox have treated some young guys well - although some would say the Sox are leveraging their exploitation to get players to sign extensions - but that doesn't excuse them manipulating a system in bad faith against Madrigal. Young players should be paid more in general.
February 24, 20206 yr This is one of those discussions where I agree with both people as I read each subsequent post. In my head: "Oh good point...wait, but that's a great point too...shit, another solid counter...alright, I agree with both people."
February 24, 20206 yr 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It is against the rules; I don't know why people keep saying otherwise. It is defined ambiguously so, in terms of contract law, the arbiter has to side with the ownership side because there are no defined terms to determine "readiness." This was an oversight by the MLBPA, but it doesn't mean it should give ownership the right to act in bad faith. It's similar to the players escaping punishment with the sign stealing situation; it "technically" was not against the rules for the players because it wasn't agreed upon within the CBA. It was very obviously wrong, though. I agree the Sox have treated some young guys well - although some would say the Sox are leveraging their exploitation to get players to sign extensions - but that doesn't excuse them manipulating a system in bad faith against Madrigal. Young players should be paid more in general. Nick Madrigal has less than 315 plate appearances above A ball. There is plenty of reason for him to get more minor league seasoning. I agree that (good) young players and minors leaguers should get paid more. But this is the system that is currently in place. Take it up with MLB and the MLBPA. I don't really care to get into the contract law debate, and obviously a guy like Madrigal this year, Eloy last year, Robert had he not been extended, etc. are one of the best 25/26 players in the organization. But there are other things that matter, and ultimately, these dudes are employees of the White Sox, the White Sox own their rights, and the White Sox can do what they want under the terms of the existing CBA. There is no written rule that defines a players readiness, and until there is, intelligent teams are going to continue to abuse contractual control. Nick Madrigal is going to make plenty of money playing a kids game in addition to the massive $6.4M signing bonus the Sox gave him, so if this delays his FA by 1 season, it is hard for me to feel too bad about it.
February 25, 20206 yr 1. Anderson 2. Moncada 3. Abreu 4. Encarnacion 5. Jimenez 6. McCann 7. Robert 8. Mendick (2B) 9. Garcia (RF) Double dip of both Giolito starting and facing a lefty gets McCann the start at catcher. Mazara sits against Duffy as well.
February 25, 20206 yr Author 10 minutes ago, TomPickle said: 1. Anderson 2. Moncada 3. Abreu 4. Encarnacion 5. Jimenez 6. McCann 7. Robert 8. Mendick (2B) 9. Garcia (RF) Double dip of both Giolito starting and facing a lefty gets McCann the start at catcher. Mazara sits against Duffy as well. You think Duffy over Keller on Opening Day?
February 25, 20206 yr Actually come to think of it, McCann will absolutely be on the opening day lineup.
February 25, 20206 yr Author 6 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Actually come to think of it, McCann will absolutely be on the opening day lineup. I don’t see them benching their big free agent addition unless they plan on using McCann as Giolito’s exclusive catcher.
February 25, 20206 yr 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t see them benching their big free agent addition unless they plan on using McCann as Giolito’s exclusive catcher. I'm almost positive that is exactly what they're gonna do. Doesn't mean Grandal has to sit either (they might bench Encarnacion the first game and have him pinch hit if needed).
February 25, 20206 yr 6 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It is against the rules; I don't know why people keep saying otherwise. It is defined ambiguously so, in terms of contract law, the arbiter has to side with the ownership side because there are no defined terms to determine "readiness." This was an oversight by the MLBPA, but it doesn't mean it should give ownership the right to act in bad faith. It's similar to the players escaping punishment with the sign stealing situation; it "technically" was not against the rules for the players because it wasn't agreed upon within the CBA. It was very obviously wrong, though. I agree the Sox have treated some young guys well - although some would say the Sox are leveraging their exploitation to get players to sign extensions - but that doesn't excuse them manipulating a system in bad faith against Madrigal. Young players should be paid more in general. You said it is against the rules in your first sentence and explained exactly why it isn’t against the rules in your second sentence. Either something is “against the rules” or it isn’t. Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Moan4Yoan
February 25, 20206 yr 8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It is against the rules; I don't know why people keep saying otherwise. It is defined ambiguously so, in terms of contract law, the arbiter has to side with the ownership side because there are no defined terms to determine "readiness." This was an oversight by the MLBPA, but it doesn't mean it should give ownership the right to act in bad faith. It's similar to the players escaping punishment with the sign stealing situation; it "technically" was not against the rules for the players because it wasn't agreed upon within the CBA. It was very obviously wrong, though. I agree the Sox have treated some young guys well - although some would say the Sox are leveraging their exploitation to get players to sign extensions - but that doesn't excuse them manipulating a system in bad faith against Madrigal. Young players should be paid more in general. It's not against the rules, period. If the rules are poorly defined, the parameters for breaking them are flawed and cannot truly be broken. Period.
February 25, 20206 yr It would be SO DUMB to use McCann as Giolitos personal catcher.. McCann has one year left and is gone after this year..
February 25, 20206 yr On 2/23/2020 at 1:58 PM, Chicago White Sox said: We’re just over a month away from Opening Day so I thought now would be a good time for official lineup predictions. Here is my official guess of what Ricky will trot out on Opening Day against the Royals: Anderson, SS Moncada, 3B# Abreu, 1B Grandal, C# Jimenez, LF Encarnacion, DH Mazara, RF* Robert, CF Garcia, 2B# Based on today's lineup, Ricky will be going with something very close to what you have here. Push EE up to 4 or 5 and I think you nailed it.
February 25, 20206 yr So if Abreu declines this season (likely) how long will Ricky pencil him in 3rd?
February 25, 20206 yr 11 minutes ago, reiks12 said: So if Abreu declines this season (likely) how long will Ricky pencil him in 3rd? This discussion came up earlier this offseason. Most people think Ricky will keep him 3rd all year no matter what. I don't think there's any chance he keeps him 3rd if he's struggling and other guys deserve to be in that spot. He wants to win games. He has never had a team that can win games, so you can't use his past decisions to predict what he will do this year.
February 26, 20206 yr I don't know what makes people think Madrigal has proven himself worthy of an mlb roster spot let alone an extension. Comparing him to the prospect Kris Bryant was a few years ago is completely laughable. Edited February 26, 20206 yr by PantsRowland
February 26, 20206 yr Author 15 minutes ago, PantsRowland said: I don't know what makes people think Madrigal has proven himself worthy of an mlb roster spot let alone an extension. Comparing him to the prospect Kris Bryant was a few years ago is completely laughable. A 150 wRC+ in AA followed by a 117 wRC+ in AAA (SSS) suggests he’s more than worthy of a roster spot. I’d still hold him down for the extra year of team control though.
February 26, 20206 yr On 2/24/2020 at 8:12 PM, TomPickle said: Double dip of both Giolito starting and facing a lefty gets McCann the start at catcher. You don't sign a catcher to a franchise record contract and sit him on opening day. Grandal is starting on opening day.
February 27, 20206 yr 1. Anderson 2. Moncada 3. Abreu 4. Encarnacion 5. Jimenez 6. Grandal 7. Robert 8. Mazara 9. Garcia
February 28, 20206 yr 1. Anderson 2. Moncada 3. Abreu 4. Encarnacion 5. Grandal 6. Eloy 7. Mazara 8. Robert 9. Mendick
February 28, 20206 yr On 2/24/2020 at 7:12 PM, TomPickle said: 1. Anderson 2. Moncada 3. Abreu 4. Encarnacion 5. Jimenez 6. McCann 7. Robert 8. Mendick (2B) 9. Garcia (RF) Double dip of both Giolito starting and facing a lefty gets McCann the start at catcher. Mazara sits against Duffy as well. Grandal had a 138 wRC+ vs LHP last year. If James McCann is the opening day catcher, Rick Renteria should be fired.
February 28, 20206 yr From looking at spring training lineups early on, it seems that the opening day will look like this: 1. Tim Anderson SS 2. Yoan Moncada 3B 3. Jose Abreu 1B 4. Edwin Encarnacion DH 5. Yasmani Grandal C 6. Eloy Jimenez LF 7. Luis Robert CF 8. Nomar Mazara RF 9. Leury Garcia 2B
February 28, 20206 yr On 2/24/2020 at 9:02 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Anderson Moncada Abreu EE Grandal Eloy Robert Mazara Madrigal Madrigal makes this team. Bump for JImmy! You are spot on Jimmy, but Madrigal makes the roster. I still feel that way.
February 28, 20206 yr 20 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Grandal had a 138 wRC+ vs LHP last year. If James McCann is the opening day catcher, Rick Renteria should be fired. At this point, just hope Giolito, EE and Grandal are good to go. If so, then yeah, McCann should be on bench
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