Btw most people in the industry didn't see madrigal as a 3 homer guy.

Longenhagen for example thought he would eventually grow into like 15-18 homer power which he since has corrected down (but maybe  could still happen).

So I disagree madrigal had no upside, the upside was he grows into some power and hits .300+ with good defense and 15-18 bombs which is essentially whit merrifield or Dustin Pedroia who had 4-5 war seasons at their peak.

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by Dominikk85

16 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Btw most people in the industry didn't see madrigal as a 3 homer guy.

Longenhagen for example thought he would eventually grow into like 15-18 homer power which he since has corrected down (but maybe  could still happen).

So I disagree madrigal had no upside, the upside was he grows into some power and hits .300+ with good defense and 15-18 bombs which is essentially whit merrifield or Dustin Pedroia who had 4-5 war seasons at their peak.

I think it's safe to say a lot of those guys missed on the evaluation.  Projecting power for a college hitter who never showed it and doesn't have the physical profile is very risky to say the least.  They fell in love with the player and thought his college game would translate to the big leagues.  

9 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I think it's safe to say a lot of those guys missed on the evaluation.  Projecting power for a college hitter who never showed it and doesn't have the physical profile is very risky to say the least.  They fell in love with the player and thought his college game would translate to the big leagues.  

In what way don’t you think his college game will translate to the majors?  His 2019 minor league numbers basically seem like the player most of us were expecting, but with a higher propensity to get on base.  I don’t think he will ever live up to the Longenhagen hype, but I think you undersell his potential quite a bit.

20 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I think it's safe to say a lot of those guys missed on the evaluation.  Projecting power for a college hitter who never showed it and doesn't have the physical profile is very risky to say the least.  They fell in love with the player and thought his college game would translate to the big leagues.  

Madrigal's ceiling is Placido Polanco. That's not a first round pick, imo, let alone a top 5 pick in the draft. When I was more on board with Madrigal at 4, I thought he had a chance to be a generational hitter for average. A consistent .330+ guy. If that's the case, it's fine. 

What I've always been concerned about is that his low strikeout rate was due to making contact for the sake of not striking out early in the count. So far, those concerns are very valid. 

The more I watch Madrigal the  more concerned I get. 

Him being a 50-55 runner isn't good either when he was billed as a 60-65 runner. 

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Madrigal's ceiling is Placido Polanco. That's not a first round pick, imo, let alone a top 5 pick in the draft. When I was more on board with Madrigal at 4, I thought he had a chance to be a generational hitter for average. A consistent .330+ guy. If that's the case, it's fine. 

What I've always been concerned about is that his low strikeout rate was due to making contact for the sake of not striking out early in the count. So far, those concerns are very valid. 

The more I watch Madrigal the  more concerned I get. 

Him being a 50-55 runner isn't good either when he was billed as a 60-65 runner. 

OMG, it’s two fucking games.  And the first two games of his entire major league career where is likely pressing.  But please continue to ignore his minor league stats where he made contact AND got on base and focus entirely on 8 plate appearances. And calling him a 50 grade runner is ludicrous.

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by Chicago White Sox

So you went from calling him Tony Gwynn to a bust in the span of 10 PA @Jack Parkman that sounds about right.

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

OMG, it’s two fucking games.  And the first two games of his entire major league career where is likely pressing.  But please continue to ignore his minor league stats where he made contact AND got on base and focus entirely on 8 plate appearances. And calling him a 50 grade runner is ludicrous.

I've seen his minor league stats. 

Nick Madrigal's minors stats .309/.371/.769

I would have thought he'd have done better than that in the first two categories when they drafted him. 

You're acting like those with a critical eye haven't been following him in the minors...we have. 

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I've seen his minor league stats. 

Nick Madrigal's minors stats .309/.371/.769

I would have thought he'd have done better than that in the first two categories when they drafted him. 

You're acting like those with a critical eye haven't been following him in the minors...we have. 

You thought a guy who you were concerned wasn’t going walk enough put up an OBP 62 points higher than his batting average?

16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You thought a guy who you were concerned wasn’t going walk enough put up an OBP 62 points higher than his batting average?

Minors=/=Majors. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Minors=/=Majors. 

So again, this is all based on 8 plate appearances, got it.

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

So again, this is all based on 8 plate appearances, got it.

It's not, it's based on seeing him do stuff that worked in the minors that won't in the majors. I'm by no means writing him off, but since turning pro I don't think he's been as advertised in any skill other than defense. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's not, it's based on seeing him do stuff that worked in the minors that won't in the majors. I'm by no means writing him off, but since turning pro I don't think he's been as advertised in any skill other than defense. 

What won’t work in the majors that worked in the minors?  What am I missing here other than an overreaction to 8 plate appearances?

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What won’t work in the majors that worked in the minors?  What am I missing here other than an overreaction to 8 plate appearances?

Slappy McSlapperson, putting pressure on the D by putting the ball in play, slower than advertised running leading to fewer SB, etc. 

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Slappy McSlapperson, putting pressure on the D by putting the ball in play, slower than advertised running leading to fewer SB, etc. 

So basically you have nothing of substance that won’t translate.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So basically you have nothing of substance that won’t translate.

He also hits a ton of ground balls and when he gets it in the air it's an automatic out if not smoked. 

I think defensive shifting might get him in the majors as ground ball hits become outs.  

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I think it's safe to say a lot of those guys missed on the evaluation.  Projecting power for a college hitter who never showed it and doesn't have the physical profile is very risky to say the least.  They fell in love with the player and thought his college game would translate to the big leagues.  

I think this is a fair assessment. I'm probably guilty of it too. The narrative and the makeup of the player obfuscated some of the tools and projection for me. That being said, I sure hope he pans out into a useful piece, even if not a superstar. It just gets tiring reading some of the vitriol spit at him on this forum. It sometimes feels like people want him to fail and that's kind of a bummer.

3 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I think this is a fair assessment. I'm probably guilty of it too. The narrative and the makeup of the player obfuscated some of the tools and projection for me. That being said, I sure hope he pans out into a useful piece, even if not a superstar. It just gets tiring reading some of the vitriol spit at him on this forum. It sometimes feels like people want him to fail and that's kind of a bummer.

Nobody wants him to fail. 

12 hours ago, tray said:

Leury  had some early errors, but that was not surprising given that he has been playing all over the field. Just leave him at second when TA comes back. His bat at the bottom of the order has been a revelation with homers from both sides of the plate and  a couple of multi-hit games.

Madrigal was an effective hitter  in college using an aluminum bat. I wonder what the average exit velocity off Madrigal's wood bat is now ?  That would be an objective parameter to consider in some of these discussions.

 

Mardigal also completely obliterated AA pitching. You know, the place where Sox hitting prospects go to die.

I hoped he'd become a player that can steer his little ground balls/line drives into the holes of the defense on top of playing near gold glove caliber defense.

Nice little #9 batter who's bat won't be an issue once the Sox are at full strength. 

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So basically you have nothing of substance that won’t translate.

I guess putting the ball in play only puts pressure on the defense in the minors and all levels below. In the majors, no such thing exists.

24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He also hits a ton of ground balls and when he gets it in the air it's an automatic out if not smoked. 

I think defensive shifting might get him in the majors as ground ball hits become outs.  

If he was slap hitter that only rolls over on groundballs to the same side of the infield in every AB, he wouldn't have been called up. He looks to be the type of hitter to "hit 'em where they ain't" and should be able to make a career out of finding the gaps.

22 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I think this is a fair assessment. I'm probably guilty of it too. The narrative and the makeup of the player obfuscated some of the tools and projection for me. That being said, I sure hope he pans out into a useful piece, even if not a superstar. It just gets tiring reading some of the vitriol spit at him on this forum. It sometimes feels like people want him to fail and that's kind of a bummer.

I get that.  It's a White Sox message board and any criticsim of a White Sox player will not be received well.  I've actually been holding back on a lot of my thoughts.  

27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Nobody wants him to fail. 

I don’t think you want him to fail, but I wouldn’t assume that’s the case for everyone.

Sox have requested unconditional waivers on Herrera to release him.