22 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

This needs another thread. 

No. Just no.

Maybe somebody should start another thread?

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Don't drink and drive.

Don't drink and moderate.

It was a refreshing pace to see a catcher who, wait for it, actually can catch a baseball and call a good game.

Would be good for pitcher development to allow McCann to work with Dunning and Cease for their remaining starts, in addition to Giolitio's starts, , to help with their development, before McCann is told to walk to assuage Hahn's ego and poor roster construction. Wouldn't be surprised if Adam Dunn 3.0 is brought back, because you can never have too many DH/1B.

7 hours ago, DirtySox said:

Jesus. The McCann superfans on this site are the worst.

POTY

11 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Don't drink and moderate.

It was a refreshing pace to see a catcher who, wait for it, actually can catch a baseball and call a good game.

Would be good for pitcher development to allow McCann to work with Dunning and Cease for their remaining starts, in addition to Giolitio's starts, , to help with their development, before McCann is told to walk to assuage Hahn's ego and poor roster construction. Wouldn't be surprised if Adam Dunn 3.0 is brought back, because you can never have too many DH/1B.

Right, but another team isn't going to value that at 2 million dollars a year? Ridiculous. 

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Right, but another team isn't going to value that at 2 million dollars a year? Ridiculous. 

That is what he is being paid, regardless of your "feelings". Let's deal with reality, that is his 2020 salary.

Perhaps reply to my posts within context instead of jumping on a sentence outside of context. I stated the current economic environment, and the fact it will likely not appreciate within the next six months. Jerry wanted to cut salaries further, much lower than $2M, but the players held firm. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QdJEFEHa6YbLrnNhI7Z3DCZwOEycKPNVVMnkI_eN8zU/edit?usp=sharing

 

Edited September 10, 20205 yr by South Side Hit Men

Just now, South Side Hit Men said:

That is what he is being paid, regardless of your "feelings". Let's deal with reality,

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QdJEFEHa6YbLrnNhI7Z3DCZwOEycKPNVVMnkI_eN8zU/edit?usp=sharing

 

You don't think a team is going to pay him 2 million dollars next year... I hate to break it to you, but you are the one who isn't dealing in reality. 

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You don't think a team is going to pay him 2 million dollars next year... I hate to break it to you, but you are the one who isn't dealing in reality. 

What is his paid salary in 2020? $2M. Period. Why did you cut the quote short?

Either have a legitimate discussion, or move on.

Edited September 10, 20205 yr by South Side Hit Men

Mods - Why we letting Tommy Longo back?  I thought he’s received multiple lifetime bans?

I feel like an enabler just reading and posting in this thread.

...screwed up the merge. Ah well.

7 hours ago, DirtySox said:

Jesus. The McCann superfans on this site are the worst.

Hello there.

I never liked the Grandal signing. Why would I? We had an AS catcher last year and we spent more money upgrading that than anything else. Dumb choice.

22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Mods - Why we letting Tommy Longo back?  I thought he’s received multiple lifetime bans?

Wait who’s Tommy Longo? SSHM?

27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Mods - Why we letting Tommy Longo back?  I thought he’s received multiple lifetime bans?

Cause I'm all out of bubblegum.

I love Jimmy Mac... and I think anyone who thinks he should start and is better is completely blind. Mccann should be singing his best graces towards the Sox who have put him in a position to look as good as possible this year; well played match ups. That doesn't take away from how awesome he's been. This thread is comical though

Edited September 10, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

16 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

Wait who’s Tommy Longo? SSHM?

Just a guess, but he’s been known to come back under new handles and his posting style is very reminiscent of our old friend Tom.

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Mods - Why we letting Tommy Longo back?  I thought he’s received multiple lifetime bans?

Why clutch at straws? I am a new poster here. Why disparage new signups? 

I believe we are all White Sox fans here, or that is what I assume when i am responding to a post. Most fans have different opinions regarding the quality of the front office, managers, coaches and players, or lack-thereof. Is that allowed here, or is the pervasive group think I've seen my few weeks here (RR can do nothing right, Hahn no wrong, YG is "Elite", McCann is garbage, Abreu is the true MVP, Anderson shouldn't be in the conversation, some consider Hawk a "professional" announcer, etc).

Lots of strong opinions, I have a few as well, willing to have a discussion based on the merits. I've been a Sox fan since birth, and then a few years later in 1975 could provide positive affirmation once I was old enough to have a choice in the matter.

Edited September 10, 20205 yr by South Side Hit Men

1 hour ago, MeanJoeCrede said:

Maybe somebody should start another thread?

i'll do it

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Why clutch at straws? I am a new poster here. Why disparage new signups? 

I believe we are all White Sox fans here, or that is what I assume when i am responding to a post. Most fans have different opinions regarding the quality of the front office, managers, coaches and players, or lack-thereof. Is that allowed here, or is the pervasive group think I've seen my few weeks here (RR can do nothing right, Hahn no wrong, YG is "Elite", McCann is garbage, Abreu is the true MVP, Anderson shouldn't be in the conversation, some consider Hawk a "professional" announcer, etc).

Lots of strong opinions, I have a few as well, willing to have a discussion based on the merits. I've been a Sox fan since birth, and then a few years later in 1975 could provide positive affirmation once I was old enough to have a choice in the matter.

Show me one post where someone called McCann “garbage”...

27 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Why clutch at straws? I am a new poster here. Why disparage new signups? 

I believe we are all White Sox fans here, or that is what I assume when i am responding to a post. Most fans have different opinions regarding the quality of the front office, managers, coaches and players, or lack-thereof. Is that allowed here, or is the pervasive group think I've seen my few weeks here (RR can do nothing right, Hahn no wrong, YG is "Elite", McCann is garbage, Abreu is the true MVP, Anderson shouldn't be in the conversation, some consider Hawk a "professional" announcer, etc).

Lots of strong opinions, I have a few as well, willing to have a discussion based on the merits. I've been a Sox fan since birth, and then a few years later in 1975 could provide positive affirmation once I was old enough to have a choice in the matter.

James McCann in his career - even before his resurgence last year - has a 123 wRC+ vs lefties and a 69 wRC+ vs righties. Last year he was better vs lefties (130) but also came up to league average vs righties (100) but he was just that; average. This year, coming into tonight McCann had a 237 wRC+ in 31 PA's vs lefties. Vs righties, before tonight his wRC+ was 79 in 44 PA's. Tonight he brought that number up substantially, probably near league average, but his greatness is being carried by his ability to hit lefties - which is something he's always possessed. He's a better player vs righties now, and he's just a better player in general, but he's done nothing to say he's better than a guy who has been the best or second best catcher in baseball for the past 4 years.

Edited September 10, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

Both guys have been good offensively. For Grandal - I never watched him that closely as a National League player. It seemed weird in the off-season how some sources would call Grandal one of the elite defensive catchers in baseball, and other sources would say he is terrible. You don't generally see a player described at both ends of the spectrum like that.

And I think we've seen both sides of that. He is an elite pitch framer. He works well with most pitchers.  And defensively, outside of pitch framing, he seems very below average. He struggles with balls in the dirt. And that play ending last night's game was inexcusable.

I see talk above about guarantees what McCann will fetch in the market this winter. I think we need to be careful and remember most teams are losing their asses this year, and it's likely spending will be way down. I heard talk there might be a lot of one year deals this winter. I don't think we can say for sure McCann is out of reach for the Sox next year.

The idea that trading Grandal would stain the Sox with future free agents is dumb. You're allowed to trade free agent acquisitions if someone else pans out better. Nobody would hold that against the Sox, except possibly that one player. Boo hoo. The problem would be that teams probably aren't going to want to trade for a player with so much guaranteed cash. The world has changed since he signed last November.

And finally, the biggest equation in this all, and most of you seem oblivious to it, is Lucas Giolito. Starting pitching is not one of this team's strengths right now, and we have a severe difference in how Gio performs between these 2 catchers.

Giolito with Grandal catching - 1-2, 5.66 ERA, 20.2 IP, 23 K's, 10 BB's

Giolito with McCann catching - 3-0, 1.85 ERA, 34IP, 52 K's, 8 BB's 

Just now, Sarava said:

Both guys have been good offensively. For Grandal - I never watched him that closely as a National League player. It seemed weird in the off-season how some sources would call Grandal one of the elite defensive catchers in baseball, and other sources would say he is terrible. You don't generally see a player described at both ends of the spectrum like that.

And I think we've seen both sides of that. He is an elite pitch framer. He works well with most pitchers.  And defensively, outside of pitch framing, he seems very below average. He struggles with balls in the dirt. And that play ending last night's game was inexcusable.

I see talk above about guarantees what McCann will fetch in the market this winter. I think we need to be careful and remember most teams are losing their asses this year, and it's likely spending will be way down. I heard talk there might be a lot of one year deals this winter. I don't think we can say for sure McCann is out of reach for the Sox next year.

The idea that trading Grandal would stain the Sox with future free agents is dumb. You're allowed to trade free agent acquisitions if someone else pans out better. Nobody would hold that against the Sox, except possibly that one player. Boo hoo. The problem would be that teams probably aren't going to want to trade for a player with so much guaranteed cash. The world has changed since he signed last November.

And finally, the biggest equation in this all, and most of you seem oblivious to it, is Lucas Giolito. Starting pitching is not one of this team's strengths right now, and we have a severe difference in how Gio performs between these 2 catchers.

Giolito with Grandal catching - 1-2, 5.66 ERA, 20.2 IP, 23 K's, 10 BB's

Giolito with McCann catching - 3-0, 1.85 ERA, 34IP, 52 K's, 8 BB's 

The only numbers that you should to any attention to at this point are 20.2 and 34. 

You all are going to make me look forward to the day we can stop having this conversation. 

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

James McCann in his career - even before his resurgence last year - has a 123 wRC+ vs lefties and a 69 wRC+ vs righties. Last year he was better vs lefties (130) but also came up to league average vs righties (100) but he was just that; average. This year, coming into tonight McCann had a 237 wRC+ in 31 PA's vs lefties. Vs righties, before tonight his wRC+ was 79 in 44 PA's. Tonight he brought that number up substantially, probably near league average, but his greatness is being carried by his ability to hit lefties - which is something he's always possessed. He's a better player vs righties now, and he's just a better player in general, but he's done nothing to say he's better than a guy who has been the best or second best catcher in baseball for the past 4 years.

Appreciate the hitting breakouts. I appreciate the strengths both players can bring to the table. Grandal pitch frames well, and is a valuable left handed bat in the lineup. McCann is better at working with pitchers, especially young ones.

The 2019 off-season question was whether Grandal was the best use of limited resources in terms of dollars, current roster, and defensive limitations of said roster based on numerous DH/1B types (Abreu, Vaughn, Parrot, Jimenez (whether acknowledged or not), and soon Vaughn (and Burger if he is every healthy enough to play)). Even if Kopech elected to play, they still could have used another starter and bullpen depth.  

I still believe due to severe economic uncertainty, and specific to MLB uncertainty regarding revenue / attendance, free-agent spending which actually contracted recently will become heavily restricted, and McCann has a chance to return, at a better higher rate than Yolmer, but still far below what the expectations were pre-COVID. MLB teams will be extremely conservative until Spring Training in terms of spending in light of all that has happened, and will continue to happen, over the next few years.

8 minutes ago, mqr said:

The only numbers that you should to any attention to at this point are 20.2 and 34. 

Obviously Giolito and McCann have a lengthy track record of success together. See 2019.

What do we make of Grandal and Giolito? At this point, they seem intent on McCann catching all of Gio's games now. Makes me wonder who decided that. Did Giolito request it? Are the Sox just rolling with something that works? Hmm.