1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

If Dunning gets his MiLB reported stuff back, you'll be sorry for making that deal. It's quite possible. 

He was never a huge “stuff” guy

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

If Dunning gets his MiLB reported stuff back, you'll be sorry for making that deal. It's quite possible. 

Will we be sorry if Lance Lynn is starting game 2 of the playoffs after hopefully Giolito has a good first game? I won't. You know why? Because we'll have a damn good chance of getting to the World Series. 

Just now, fathom said:

He was never a huge “stuff” guy

He wasn't, but he was averaging over 93 mph in the minors and topped at 96 which he never did this past season. 

1 minute ago, Baron said:

Will we be sorry if Lance Lynn is starting game 2 of the playoffs after hopefully Giolito has a good first game? I won't. You know why? Because we'll have a damn good chance of getting to the World Series. 

You don't trade Dylan Cease for a 34 year old pitcher on a 1 year deal. 

Darvish is also 34 but he has a track record of being a strong #2 throughout the majority of his career AND has 3 years of control. Darvish's track record>>>>Lynn's 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

If Dunning gets his MiLB reported stuff back, you'll be sorry for making that deal. It's quite possible. 

But that's not what I was responding to was it. We can live in a world where Dunning is a good pitcher without having to bludgeon our mind to believe that Lynn is actually not that good.  But Lynn is very good, and with the exception of a single year, he's been good his entire career.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

But that's not what I was responding to was it. We can live in a world where Dunning is a good pitcher without having to bludgeon our mind to believe that Lynn is actually not that good.  But Lynn is very good, and with the exception of a single year, he's been good his entire career.

Lynn is ok, but he's not a TOR pitcher. I'd rather have Tanaka for free, despite his potential UCL issue. 

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He wasn't, but he was averaging over 93 mph in the minors and topped at 96 which he never did this past season. 

So he was down about 1 mph....not exactly a huge decline. 

1 minute ago, fathom said:

So he was down about 1 mph....not exactly a huge decline. 

The bigger issue with Dunning last year was his stamina more than anything else. He couldn't hold his stuff past the 4th inning or so. But those 1st 3 innings were damn good. 

He reminded me a bit of Bieber.(best case scenario) 

Bieber doesn't have huge stuff either but his control is impeccable, which is a lot of what I saw from Dunning while his stuff was still there. 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

Pretty assinine to want to trade Cease/Dunning for Lynn.

Lynn is old and a 1 year deal. There's no gurantee he's anywhere aas good aas he's been the past couple of years for the next year. 

Just now, iWiN4PreP said:

Pretty assinine to want to trade Cease/Dunning for Lynn.

Lynn is old and a 1 year deal. There's no gurantee he's anywhere aas good aas he's been the past couple of years for the next year. 

Ding Ding Ding......we have a winner. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

The bigger issue with Dunning last year was his stamina more than anything else. He couldn't hold his stuff past the 4th inning or so. But those 1st 3 innings were damn good. 

He reminded me a bit of Bieber. 

He’s closer to Justin than Shane

1 minute ago, fathom said:

He’s closer to Justin than Shane

Stuff wise they're very similar, and Dunning misses bats more than I thought he would. He's the profile of a guy that might surprise you in MLB performance. 

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The bigger issue with Dunning last year was his stamina more than anything else. He couldn't hold his stuff past the 4th inning or so. But those 1st 3 innings were damn good. 

He reminded me a bit of Bieber.(best case scenario) 

Bieber doesn't have huge stuff either but his control is impeccable, which is a lot of what I saw from Dunning while his stuff was still there. 

I think that's a good comp Jack. Especially the Dunning from 2 years ago.

Soxtalk player comps continue to just be the bane of my existence.

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Ding Ding Ding......we have a winner. 

There's no guarantee Cease is even good. There's no guarantee Dunning is good. Both of them were spotty. There's no guarantee the sun comes up tomorrow. 

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Soxtalk player comps continue to just be the bane of my existence.

Bieber is like a 99th percentile outcome even for Shane Bieber the prospect....however there's a lot of similarities there. I don't think that Dunning is going to be that good, but that's his ceiling IMO. I think Dunning is likely to be a solid 3 and you don't trade 6 years of that for one year of 34 year old Lance Lynn. 

 

I'd be fine trading someone like Andrew Dalquist+someone like Adolfo/Rutherford/Sheets for Lynn but no more than that. 

And If that doesn't get it done, then Jon Daniels can go find a sucker elsewhere. (how does Jon Daniels still have a job btw) 

 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

One one hand, you have shane bieber, a fastball/curveball combo pitcher with a consistent mid 90s fastball with incredible ride and breaks in on RHB hands he nails at the top of the zone before using his curve down low.

On the other you have Dunning, who mostly was a sinker-slider pitcher. Dunning has ability to grow, and his curve was really good and his sinker worked last year. He can evolve, pitchers do. 

But I'd just say that 2021 for the sox is more valuable than 2026 despite everything this board would have you believe. I would not TRY to trade Dunning at all. I like that we have at least one pitcher that can throw strikes. But let's not kid ourselves, Lynn is a big upgrade. He's thrown 200 innings before. He's already re-invented himself. Dunning can do all those things but he hasn't yet and that's a big difference in what to expect from pitchers.

Bieber throws a little harder but he has one of the best breaking pitches on the planet to go with impeccable command.

11 hours ago, Orlando said:

Pitchers are making bank

What is interesting is how quickly teams are targeting the 2nd and 3rd tier guys.  Usually they are the last ones off of the board.

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

One one hand, you have shane bieber, a fastball/curveball combo pitcher with a consistent mid 90s fastball with incredible ride and breaks in on RHB hands he nails at the top of the zone before using his curve down low.

On the other you have Dunning, who mostly was a sinker-slider pitcher. Dunning has ability to grow, and his curve was really good and his sinker worked last year. He can evolve, pitchers do. 

But I'd just say that 2021 for the sox is more valuable than 2026 despite everything this board would have you believe. I would not TRY to trade Dunning at all. I like that we have at least one pitcher that can throw strikes. But let's not kid ourselves, Lynn is a big upgrade. He's thrown 200 innings before. He's already re-invented himself. Dunning can do all those things but he hasn't yet and that's a big difference in what to expect from pitchers.

Dunning has the ability to do both. He has games where he's running sinker-slider-change and he has games where he's running fastball-curveball-change. 

It all depends on which group is working that day. That makes him harder to hit (theoretically) 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

26 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Dunning is a quality 3/4 pitcher in this league for a long long time. There’s no need to dump him because we’re excited to make a trade for someone marginally (if at all) better than him today. 

You are crazy if you think that Lynn is "marginally if at all" better than  Dunning today. Lynn has been a top 5 pitcher in baseball for two strait seasons. Dunning will be good in the future but he wont be near as good as Lynn in 2021. In 2022-26  when Lynn walks and Dunning is doing well in Texas, you can easily replace Dunning level production on the FA market. 2021 is so much more important for the Sox right now and I know Giolito, Lynn and Keuchel is a real playoff top 3. 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by Orlando

Just now, Orlando said:

You are crazy if you think that Lynn is "marginally if at all" better than  Dunning today. Lynn has been a top 5 pitcher in baseball for two strait seasons. Dunning will be good in the future but he wont be near as good as Lynn in 2021. In 2022 when Lynn walks and Dunning is doing well in Texas, you can easily replace Dunning level production on the FA market. 

I don't trust Lynn to keep up that type of production. He had the best years of his career at 32 and 33. That's not likely to continue. If you want Lynn, either get him for your price or wait until 2022 when he's free again, and will take a Charlie Morton type 2 year deal. 

Its not written in the Bible Lynn can't be extended. 

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

 

I have no problem parting with Cease in the right deal.  But for one singular year of Lynn that's a tough sell.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Bieber throws a little harder but he has one of the best breaking pitches on the planet to go with impeccable command.

His four-seamer is an incredible pitch regardless of even the velo differential.