2020 Election Thoughts

[Texsox]

2 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

We already know the system didn't work because there was a counter coup!!

 

 

We're told that there are assurances the President doesn't currently control the nuclear arsenal!

 

 

 

This is the system breaking down.

Y'all have convinced me. The system does need a review to restore the faith of the American public. 

[StrangeSox]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Sure. Do you believe the election could have been stolen from Biden and what should be done about it?

I believe we shouldn't treat anything fascists say as if it's being said in good faith, and we should expel them from Congress and imprison them where appropriate. Anything else is irrelevant to the discussion of their attempted coup.

[Texsox]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

The areas of concern are the GOP gaming the system and suppressing the vote. 

Right. You don't believe we have fair elections. Again, I'm in. A bipartisan review of our elections. 

[StrangeSox]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Y'all have convinced me. The system does need a review to restore the faith of the American public. 

You can have many criticisms of the US government and it's structures without giving a single inch to the "concerns" of fascists, or treating them as if they're just polite political disagreements.

[StrangeSox]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Right. You don't believe we have fair elections. Again, I'm in. A bipartisan review of our elections. 

Bipartisan after the people who supported the coup are purged, sure.

[Texsox]

3 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

I believe we shouldn't treat anything fascists say as if it's being said in good faith, and we should expel them from Congress and imprison them where appropriate. Anything else is irrelevant to the discussion of their attempted coup.

How about socialists? Communists? 

I believe actions, regardless of motive or political ideology should guide our response. I don't care if you jumped through those windows as a fascists, socialist, white supremist, or god told you to do it. You should be going to jail for a long, long, time. Anything else is irrelevant. 

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Do you really think Congress wouldn't install Biden and let the courts sort it out later? And do you think anyone other than Biden would eventually be president? 

You're assuming:

1. A legal method to install Biden. If they aren't presented with the votes of the electoral college, they cannot vote for that.

2. A quorum. If, hypothetically, more than 1/2 of the House of Representatives could not reach the House, the House would be unable to reach a Quorum and could not legally vote on anything. House Members cannot be replaced without a legally recognized election in their districts, unlike Senators there is no way to appoint them. If 220 members of the House were killed or taken hostage, there would be no legal way to vote for a new speaker or install a President.

Without these, Biden would not legally be president. He could not legally give an order to the military. He could not legally direct federal agencies. The Courts could not simply sort this out later, courts cannot write laws. 

Biden would only be President if an entirely new government was established. You would somehow need the states to reapprove the US Constitution, with a restart rule built in. Effectively, that situation is a complete collapse of the US Federal government.

[StrangeSox]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

How about socialists? Communists? 

I believe actions, regardless of motive or political ideology should guide our response. I don't care if you jumped through those windows as a fascists, socialist, white supremist, or god told you to do it. You should be going to jail for a long, long, time. Anything else is irrelevant. 

It's pretty fucked up how far you're willing to go to treat fascism as just another normal political ideology to be debated and discussed.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

It's pretty fucked up how far you're willing to go to treat fascism as just another normal political ideology to be debated and discussed.

Agreed. 

[Jack Parkman]

12 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Right. You don't believe we have fair elections. Again, I'm in. A bipartisan review of our elections. 

This is not a both sides issue. Quit trying to make it so. 

A bipartisan review does nothing when one of the partisan sides are majority fascist sympathizers. 

My ideology is pretty left wing, but I will absolutely not put my ideology over democracy. If a majority of the country disagrees with me, it is my job as a citizen to uphold democracy. 

The GOP think capitalism is the defining feature of the US, not democracy. The majority of the moderate Republicans have been voted out of office.

I believe the defining feature of the US is democracy.  

There are no negotiations with terrorists. 

I am always anti-violence and pro-democracy. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Listen if you think this mob could steal the election from Biden you do not have faith in the process and should support those that want a full and comprehensive look at the system. This is too important. I'm shocked at how many people believe the election could be stolen from Biden. 

Why is this even something to talk about?

It doesn't matter for a second what we think could have or would have happened. 

This is an absolutely meaningless sidebar that distracts from actual sedition and treason. 

[Texsox]

7 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

It's pretty fucked up how far you're willing to go to treat fascism as just another normal political ideology to be debated and discussed.

I said lock them up among with anyone else who broke in. They all get treated  the same.  Are you telling me that communists or racists shouldn't be treated as harshly?  That's fucked up.  They all deserve the harshest sentences for breaking into the capital. Fuck being lenient because they believe in communism or white power. Actions. 

Think about what you are suggesting. Communists get 25 years, Fascists 30 years? Fuck them. They all should be serving life sentences for treason. I can't believe anyone would start separating treason based on ideology, That's really fucked up.  

[StrangeSox]

I'm saying communists haven't attempted a violent overthrow of the federal government so maybe shut the fuck up about your dumb whataboutisms comparing civil rights marches to fascist insurrections.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I said lock them up among with anyone else who broke in. They all get treated  the same.  Are you telling me that communists or racists shouldn't be treated as harshly?  That's fucked up.  They all deserve the harshest sentences for breaking into the capital. Fuck being lenient because they believe in communism or white power. Actions. 

What we're saying is that communists get treated more harshly than fascists for lesser offenses. 

I agree that if left wing groups cross a line, they should be punished for it. 

That isn't the issue though. The issue is how fascism has become a mainstream ideology in the US. 

Quit trying to equate civil rights marches with a fascist insurrection. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[CentralChamps21]

A couple things that we thought would never be an issue need to be fixed:

1) Congress needs direct control of something bigger/better than the Capitol Police so that the President doesn't control their ability to defend themselved.

2) The procedure by which a long congressman and Senator can object to the electoral from being counted and force a vote needs to go away. The courts are there to adjudicate disputes over election results.

3) We need fewer than 14 days between the electoral vote count and the beginning of the new term.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

I'm saying communists haven't attempted a violent overthrow of the federal government so maybe shut the fuck up about your dumb whataboutisms comparing civil rights marches to fascist insurrections.

Thank you. 

[Texsox]

Just now, StrangeSox said:

I'm saying communists haven't attempted a violent overthrow of the federal government so maybe shut the fuck up about your dumb whataboutisms comparing civil rights marches to fascist insurrections.

I'm saying I don't give one fuck why someone violently broke into the capital, it's an act of treason and should e dealt with in the harshest penalties under law. That's how we survive this. not some lame ass well fascists get this sentence and non fascists get this one. They all were committing treason. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

I'm saying I don't give one fuck why someone violently broke into the capital, it's an act of treason and should e dealt with in the harshest penalties under law. That's how we survive this. not some lame ass well fascists get this sentence and non fascists get this one. They all were committing treason. 

And these people are being treated more leniently by the justice system for leading an insurrection than people who were marching for basic human rights. 

[CentralChamps21]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I said lock them up among with anyone else who broke in. They all get treated  the same.  Are you telling me that communists or racists shouldn't be treated as harshly?  That's fucked up.  They all deserve the harshest sentences for breaking into the capital. Fuck being lenient because they believe in communism or white power. Actions. 

Think about what you are suggesting. Communists get 25 years, Fascists 30 years? Fuck them. They all should be serving life sentences for treason. I can't believe anyone would start separating treason based on ideology, That's really fucked up.  

You keep saying that, but you don't seem to have a problem with everything that led up to this point. These idiots who stormed the capitol and weren't smart enough to disguise their identities while posting their actions on social media didn't think up this grand plan. They were incited to do so, and there were serious flaws in the system that led to that point. The President egged them on, then prevented the military from stopping them, and he was still in power to do that because his entire party refused to do anything about him before that point. When he can call Ukraine, ask them to dig up dirt on his election opponent, and only one member of his party stood up to him during impeachment, the entire party bears some level of responsibility for everything he did after that.

[Texsox]

4 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

I'm saying communists haven't attempted a violent overthrow of the federal government so maybe shut the fuck up about your dumb whataboutisms comparing civil rights marches to fascist insurrections.

I said lock them all up regardless of ideology. You disagreed. You want to pick and choose which traitors receive which punishment. Nice. I still think that's really fucked up. I'll stand by my statement that they all should be jailed for treason and given the harshest sentences under law. 

Who was checking ideology at the capital? I believe that all sorts of anti American views were present in that mob including communists. As soon as we follow your path of trying to sort out these traitors by ideology we go down a very dangerous path. Lock them all up for a long time. 

[Texsox]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

And these people are being treated more leniently by the justice system for leading an insurrection than people who were marching for basic human rights. 

So far I agree the law system has treated them way too nicely. We'll see what justice ultimately happens after people are put on trial. I'll be really pissed if there aren't really long prison sentences handed out. I'd like to see life in prison for all of them. I don't care why they went in. The fact they went in is enough for me. For us to survive this we need these people condemned and imprisoned. I believe that will happen. 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I said lock them all up regardless of ideology. You disagreed. You want to pick and choose which traitors receive which punishment. Nice. I still think that's really fucked up. I'll stand by my statement that they all should be jailed for treason and given the harshest sentences under law. 

Who was checking ideology at the capital? I believe that all sorts of anti American views were present in that mob including communists. As soon as we follow your path of trying to sort out these traitors by ideology we go down a very dangerous path. Lock them all up for a long time. 

Do you realize that nobody with a left wing ideology would be at a Trump rally? 

The literally left the Trump rally and went straight to the capitol. 

Do not buy the propaganda that there were left wingers in there. 

[pcq]

44 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Exactly. Balta is suggesting if they took the ballot box with the state results that somehow the election would be taken from Biden. To me it's an act of treason and it would be dealt with and Biden would still be president. I do not see a way, short of actually killing Biden, that the seditious and treasonous folks that stormed the capital would prevent Biden from becoming president. Balta met the challenge with an example. In fact several posters mentioned ways that the election could be stolen from Biden. I still disagree and believe we would fight treason and install the lawfully elected person. But clearly people disagree and find ways that trump could stay in power. 

Check. There are six batches of certs sent to various locales including Library of Congress. 

[Texsox]

8 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

You keep saying that, but you don't seem to have a problem with everything that led up to this point. These idiots who stormed the capitol and weren't smart enough to disguise their identities while posting their actions on social media didn't think up this grand plan. They were incited to do so, and there were serious flaws in the system that led to that point. The President egged them on, then prevented the military from stopping them, and he was still in power to do that because his entire party refused to do anything about him before that point. When he can call Ukraine, ask them to dig up dirt on his election opponent, and only one member of his party stood up to him during impeachment, the entire party bears some level of responsibility for everything he did after that.

I have a huge problem with what led up to it. I believe Trump was the worst president in our nation's history. He incited the worse portions of our society for five years. He encouraged and inflamed people I'm ashamed to have called Americans. I want him shut up. I don't believe my dear mother in law is out to destroy America even though she is a staunch Republican. 

I also believe we will survive this and the truly great Americans will step up. I have faith in the American people. I believe we will fairly and justly punish people for their horrible crimes. I believe Americans wil go to the ballot box in four years and have faith that it is a fair and just election. 

[Texsox]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Do you realize that nobody with a left wing ideology would be at a Trump rally? 

The literally left the Trump rally and went straight to the capitol. 

Do not buy the propaganda that there were left wingers in there. 

Again, I don't care why they are committing acts of treason. They all get the harshest sentence possible. 

Some people want to cut slack if they aren't fascists. I disagree. Life in prison for all of them. I'll bet there were people there for the violence and mob mentality who really don't have any political ideology you could prove. Guess what? I don't care. Commit treason, get sentenced.