Passan: Springer to White Sox not happening

[thxfrthmmrs]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

They brought in his buddies to see if they could avoid paying MSRP. 

And my point is, if they offered Manny 9/$250M contract and he signed, then they would have every intention of honoring that contract. The $250M offer they made isn't for show, as some are suggesting here.

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, fathom said:

Why, you hate Vaughn so why does it matter?

Where did you get that idea? 

Vaughn is a hell of a prospect. I have no issues with Vaughn as a hitter. My issue with taking him where they did was that he's 1B/DH only, and the Sox already have a logjam there. 

[fathom]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Where did you get that idea? 

Vaughn is a hell of a prospect. I have no issues with Vaughn as a hitter. My issue with taking him where they did was that he's 1B/DH only, and the Sox already have a logjam there. 

You were suggesting they trade him like an hour ago for a RF.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Your point about Machado is spot on.  However, with Wheeler, we were absolutely prepared to pay that contract. 

I now have my doubts. Wouldn't shock me if his agent didn't say Zack isn't all in, you'd have to blow him away. Sox proceed to offer 2 million more than their initial offer.

At this point, after countless lies about landing a huge fish multiple off seasons in a row , the sox have turned me into a white sox conspiracy theorists. After all, conspiracies are bred from distrust caused by a lack of integrity. White Sox baseball operations 101.

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

And my point is, if they offered Manny 9/$250M contract and he signed, then they would have every intention of honoring that contract. The $250M offer they made isn't for show, as some are suggesting here.

Why don't you understand that the $250M offer was never going to be accepted because it began with a 2 and not a 3. 

Neither Machado nor Harper were signing for a penny less that $300M guaranteed. Harper's price was probably $326M, as that would have been the largest deal in MLB history at that point. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[HOFHurt35]

3 hours ago, Orlando said:

It went amazing because they won a World Series....?

You would think.   But go listen to that fanbase, they are as miserable today as they were before winning the World Series. 

The exact thing will happen here knowing our fanbase.  

 

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

You were suggesting they trade him like an hour ago for a RF.

Sure, for Kyle Tucker. 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I now have my doubts. Wouldn't shock me if his agent didn't say Zack isn't all in, you'd have to blow him away. Sox proceed to offer 2 million more than their initial offer.

At this point, after countless lies about landing a huge fish multiple off seasons in a row , the sox have turned me into a white sox conspiracy theorists. After all, conspiracies are bred from distrust caused by a lack of integrity. White Sox baseball operations 101.

Like it or not, Grandal was considered a big fish last year by the organization, as was Keuchel.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

10 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

I think you're not dumb enough to make that statement. I think you know the time, effort, resource it takes to go through negotiation process with top tier free agent and give a legitimate pitch, and the fact that they brought his two of his buddies to boot. If they just wanted to give a college try and please the fans, there was no need to bring in Alonso/Jay. They made an effort but came up short. I don't what's so hard to understand.

Actions speak louder than leaked reports by your PR arm following failure. Everything the sox said about a seat at the table was embarrassing then and is even more embarrassing three years later as they're still drinking milk at the adults table while the rest of the table sips on champagne. The sox dress like adults but act like children.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[fathom]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Sure, for Kyle Tucker. 

Astros would say no way

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

And my point is, if they offered Manny 9/$250M contract and he signed, then they would have every intention of honoring that contract. The $250M offer they made isn't for show, as some are suggesting here.

If you know there's zero chance he signs at that level, which is quite obvious as someone who wasn't even involved in the negotiations, then it was absolutely for show.

[SonofaRoache]

4 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

And my point is, if they offered Manny 9/$250M contract and he signed, then they would have every intention of honoring that contract. The $250M offer they made isn't for show, as some are suggesting here.

There was zero chance of Manny signing for a guaranteed 250 million over a guaranteed 300 million, no matter how many shades Kenny wore. Fans are a big part of the team's revenue, so letting them know we are trying to get big fish is not a waste of their time and efforts. it is worth the investment. This being said, I think we really did want Manny at 7/175. I think we wanted Wheeler as well. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Like it or not, Grandal was considered a big fish last year by the organization, as was Keuchel.

The sox can't make their own definitions of a big fish lol. 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Astros would say no way

Would they really? Sure they don't want the  2 extra years of control? 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[ron883]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If you know there's zero chance he signs at that level, which is quite obvious as someone who wasn't even involved in the negotiations, then it was absolutely for show.

They hired his brother in law/BFF and one of his other BFFs to make up for the cost difference though

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Like it or not, Grandal was considered a big fish last year by the organization, as was Keuchel.

Keuchel was not a big fish by any means, was he even top 5 of SP available?....  Grandal, yes.

[SonofaRoache]

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Like it or not, Grandal was considered a big fish last year by the organization, as was Keuchel.

If DK were a big fish he would have been signed the year prior to a big deal regardless of compensation. I'd consider Grandal a big fish for a catcher, not in general. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If you know there's zero chance he signs at that level, which is quite obvious as someone who wasn't even involved in the negotiations, then it was absolutely for show.

Your countless conspiracy theories has put you so far removed from reality of how free agent negotiations work. I will ask again, if they never had any intention of signing Machado, why would they have brought in Alonso or Jay? Just to spend $14M and trade a prospect to put up a facade? That seems to go against JR's penny pinching model, does it?

[SoCalChiSox]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Why don't you understand that the $250M offer was never going to be accepted because it began with a 2 and not a 3. 

Neither Machado nor Harper were signing for a penny less that $300M guaranteed. Harper's price was probably $326M, as that would have been the largest deal in MLB history at that point. 

Yeah and putting the extra fluff in there with the options and stuff to make it appear to be the top offer even though the guaranteed money was 50m short was just to give the team PR cover.

In the end it was a blessing in disguise because Moncada looks awesome at 3B and his long term deal is a much better one for us than Machado's.

[fathom]

Sox wanted Machado and didn’t think he really had a 300 million offer from Padres. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

Just now, fathom said:

Sox wanted Machado and didn’t think he really had a 300 million offer from Padres. 

Yes, I don't know why some people on this board refuses to believe this. Sox wanted Machado, they tried to low ball him and Padres made a late push to get it done. That was a failed pursuit, and an embarrassment. But it doesn't take away that had Machado accepted at $250M, Sox would have been happy to have him. It wasn't some dog and pony show to show that they're willing to write a check for 9 figures.

[SonofaRoache]

18 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sox wanted Machado and didn’t think he really had a 300 million offer from Padres. 

They said that their deal was better than the Padres. Also, the Sox went from 7/175 to 250 with incentives that would pass 300 million. They knew the Padres offer was real. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by SonofaRoache

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Your countless conspiracy theories has put you so far removed from reality of how free agent negotiations work. I will ask again, if they never had any intention of signing Machado, why would they have brought in Alonso or Jay? Just to spend $14M and trade a prospect to put up a facade? That seems to go against JR's penny pinching model, does it?

I'm very much aware as to how Free Agency works.

I also know that agents don't call and say "another team has you beat on this final offer" when they don't. They certainly abuse the media in leaking erroneous reports - although they're not supposed to - but when it comes to direct agent conversation the requirements are laid out loud and clear. When you open up bidding they tell you where you need to get to in their eyes. You can negotiate if no one else is; that's not the case with big money players.

I literally have no idea what you're arguing. If you actually think the problem the Sox had with a 300 million dollar contract was their fear of overpaying him in the 12th year I have no idea what to tell you. The Sox knew what Manny wanted, what the PA wanted for Manny and Bryce, and they knew they were never going to go there. Hahn knew that so he thought he'd get cute - I'm guessing - to entice him off his demand. Anyone who plays at the top of the FA market knows the agent is not coming off his demand for a premium free agent.

And it apparently worked to convince fans like you that the Sox were ready to play at the big kids table, yet they've been in their seat for three years and all they have to show for it is a Jon Jay Pledge Pin.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Yes, I don't know why some people on this board refuses to believe this. Sox wanted Machado, they tried to low ball him and Padres made a late push to get it done. That was a failed pursuit, and an embarrassment. But it doesn't take away that had Machado accepted at $250M, Sox would have been happy to have him. It wasn't some dog and pony show to show that they're willing to write a check for 9 figures.

Yep if I had to guess they thought agent was bluffing and the Sox stuck to their offer instead of matching.

[Y2Jimmy0]

19 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I now have my doubts. Wouldn't shock me if his agent didn't say Zack isn't all in, you'd have to blow him away. Sox proceed to offer 2 million more than their initial offer.

At this point, after countless lies about landing a huge fish multiple off seasons in a row , the sox have turned me into a white sox conspiracy theorists. After all, conspiracies are bred from distrust caused by a lack of integrity. White Sox baseball operations 101.

This isn’t the case. Hahn negotiated a deal with the agent. 5/125. Sox have stellar reputation with that agent. Agent told Hahn he needed to check with Wheeler but that they likely had a deal. At that point, Wheeler instructed his agent to find something similar on east coast. This is why it was reported as Sox having higher offer. Sox weren’t trying to appease fan base. The agent was trying to save face with Sox going forward.