2 minutes ago, Vulture said:

I still think if Hahn were really slick he’d swoop in, resign McCann and trade Grandal to a realmuto loser. Sox would be better off with McCann and whatever they can get for Grandal.

While it would never happen anyway,  I think Grandal has a no trade.

2 minutes ago, Vulture said:

I still think if Hahn were really slick he’d swoop in, resign McCann and trade Grandal to a realmuto loser. Sox would be better off with McCann and whatever they can get for Grandal.

Uh oh get ready for the assault.....

Personally, i think thats a great idea.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

While it would never happen anyway,  I think Grandal has a no trade.

Nope.  He can be traded without his consent.

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

While it would never happen anyway,  I think Grandal has a no trade.

He had a full no trade clause in ‘20 and limited the rest of the way. Can’t find specifics on what that entails.

1 hour ago, jasonxctf said:

Giolito started 42 games over the past 2 seasons. 38 with McCann as catcher and 4 with Grandal.

With McCann his era was  3.25

With Grandal his era was  5.66

Pretty sure almost all of that is due to opening day, no?

8 minutes ago, Vulture said:

I still think if Hahn were really slick he’d swoop in, resign McCann and trade Grandal to a realmuto loser. Sox would be better off with McCann and whatever they can get for Grandal.

If you can convince me that in the worst free agent market ever, someone is willing to take on that contract, sure.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Pretty sure almost all of that is due to opening day, no?

Opening day and that start against the Cardinals where he couldn’t throw a strike in the first inning to save his life. I’m still really mad at Grandal for telling Giolito that he wasn’t allowed to throw strikes that inning.

1 hour ago, jasonxctf said:

Giolito started 42 games over the past 2 seasons. 38 with McCann as catcher and 4 with Grandal.

With McCann his era was  3.25

With Grandal his era was  5.66

Nice find.  Have you explored the idea of Tim at catcher?  Any data points?

2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Nice find.  Have you explored the idea of Tim at catcher?  Any data points?

I actually have looked into this: when Tim Anderson is catching, Giolito has a 0.00 ERA. I think we’ve found our solution.

1 hour ago, jasonxctf said:

Giolito started 42 games over the past 2 seasons. 38 with McCann as catcher and 4 with Grandal.

With McCann his era was  3.25

With Grandal his era was  5.66

If giolito is such a mental midget that he can only throw to one guy then the Sox should trade him.

I did an analysis here last year on grandals catcher era vs his backups in his career and pitchers performed better than grandal catching than his back up... this was despite Clayton Kershaw being the dodgers best pitcher and not throwing to grandal all the time.

8 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I actually have looked into this: when Tim Anderson is catching, Giolito has a 0.00 ERA. I think we’ve found our solution.

Seems solid to me.

9 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I actually have looked into this: when Tim Anderson is catching, Giolito has a 0.00 ERA. I think we’ve found our solution.

Post of the winter meetings 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by Orlando

2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Nice find.  Have you explored the idea of Tim at catcher?  Any data points?

All the data points favor McCann since ‘19 though, along with Sox pitchers clearly expressing McCann preference. Sure you can find reason to discount them all but if we’re just looking at actual facts since ‘19 McCann outperformed Grandal offensively, Sox pitchers had greater success with McCann and Sox pitchers have expressed preference pitching to McCann. Eye test suggests McCann is superior behind the plate. In favor of Grandal is a an edge in pitch framing.

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If giolito is such a mental midget that he can only throw to one guy then the Sox should trade him.

I did an analysis here last year on grandals catcher era vs his backups in his career and pitchers performed better than grandal catching than his back up... this was despite Clayton Kershaw being the dodgers best pitcher and not throwing to grandal all the time.

The same is true for McCann throughout his career and in ‘20 McCann won that battle by a long shot. Sure he caught the bulk of giolito, but also bulk of rookies. Keuchel had 1.5 edge over gio anyway

3 minutes ago, Vulture said:

The same is true for McCann throughout his career and in ‘20 McCann won that battle by a long shot. Sure he caught the bulk of giolito, but also bulk of rookies. Keuchel had 1.5 edge over gio anyway

This refutes nothing i said. 

You think position players don't like having buddies on the team? Its a job.

Grandal is very good at his job. 

If giolito can only be good with one catcher then he should find another career.

It's on the pitcher just as much as the catcher when building a relationship. 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

7 minutes ago, Vulture said:

All the data points favor McCann since ‘19 though, along with Sox pitchers clearly expressing McCann preference. Sure you can find reason to discount them all but if we’re just looking at actual facts since ‘19 McCann outperformed Grandal offensively, Sox pitchers had greater success with McCann and Sox pitchers have expressed preference pitching to McCann. Eye test suggests McCann is superior behind the plate. In favor of Grandal is a an edge in pitch framing.

All the "facts" and "data points" you keep suggesting are literally just your opinions. Since 2019, McCann has slashed .276/.334/.474 (.808 OPS) and Grandal has been at .242/.373/.457 (.830 OPS). I don't care if you think McCann is better, but at least admit that it's all based on your own opinions and the eye test rather than some objective data set

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

All the "facts" and "data points" you keep suggesting are literally just your opinions. Since 2019, McCann has slashed .276/.334/.474 (.808 OPS) and Grandal has been at .242/.373/.457 (.830 OPS). I don't care if you think McCann is better, but at least admit that it's all based on your own opinions and the eye test rather than some objective data set

This doesn't even account for the fact that MCCann played in ideal match ups for him to excel while grandal played starter reps the entire time. 

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

All the "facts" and "data points" you keep suggesting are literally just your opinions. Since 2019, McCann has slashed .276/.334/.474 (.808 OPS) and Grandal has been at .242/.373/.457 (.830 OPS). I don't care if you think McCann is better, but at least admit that it's all based on your own opinions and the eye test rather than some objective data set

And not to mention, McCann was used sparingly. 

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This doesn't even account for the fact that MCCann played in ideal match ups for him to excel while grandal played starter reps the entire time. 

The McStanns and Foodies are getting a little out of hand lately. I wasn't a fan of signing James at all, but he impressed the hell out of me. He is a baller for sure, but he also has limitations. I wish him the best and will enjoy Grandal the few few seasons. 

I knew when the Sox signed Grandal that there would be tons of Sox fans who complained about him because or his style of production.

I never thought the James McCann stans would become so delusional though.

Just now, SonofaRoache said:

The McStanns and Foodies are getting a little out of hand lately. I wasn't a fan of signing James at all, but he impressed the hell out of me. He is a baller for sure, but he also has limitations. I wish him the best and will enjoy Grandal the few few seasons. 

Yup, well said. 

On 12/3/2020 at 7:47 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

White Sox also used McCann over Grandal for nearly every rookie start, and Lopez could have benefited from additional starts with McCann as well. I believe the team chose McCann over Grandal in these games for his game management and pregame work and game plan, and it's clear they responded well.

• Dunning = McCann 5 games, Collins 1, Grandal 1 (Grandal's start the only game the Sox lost with Dunning starting).
• Stiever = McCann caught his "good game", Grandal his shellacking. 
• Lopez = His best start, facing Cleveland on the road, was with McCann.

Stone said and tweeted on multiple occasions Grandal doesn't bring the same level of game preparation or attention to detail as McCann did. 

Quoted for reference.

further people keep claiming McCann wears down over full season citing post all star stats, ignoring grandal also had similar declines in latter part of season.

grandal .396 slugging post ‘19 break

mccann .416

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I knew when the Sox signed Grandal that there would be tons of Sox fans who complained about him because or his style of production.

I never thought the James McCann stans would become so delusional though.

We have to remember that Grandal is still regarded as a top 3 to 5 catcher in baseball by damn near everyone. It's not like we punted McCann for a scrub. 

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I knew when the Sox signed Grandal that there would be tons of Sox fans who complained about him because or his style of production.

I never thought the James McCann stans would become so delusional though.

Isn’t it more delusional to ignore everything save pitch framing is in mccanns favor with only rebuttals being hypotheticals. Not much of a stretch to imagine Sox would be better off with McCann at eight million per year less plus a player acquired for grandal rather than grandal

29 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This refutes nothing i said. 

You think position players don't like having buddies on the team? Its a job.

Grandal is very good at his job. 

If giolito can only be good with one catcher then he should find another career.

It's on the pitcher just as much as the catcher when building a relationship. 

If a catcher doesn’t have any effect on pitchers success why did you bring up the fact relative to grandal? you’re claim was pitchers perform better with grandal according to a study you performed. The fact Sox pitchers have been far better with McCann than grandal is therefore obviously relevant to your claim

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by Vulture