1 hour ago, Sleepy Harold said:

*The Marlins and Cardinals have entered the chat*

JI

JIM THOME!

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Yes, but they didn't play an entire season of no fans. And they aren't playing 82 games.

They are about to. They aren't planning on having fans this year but they hope to, just like MLB did. And  yet it restarteded without antagonism between the NBAPA and NBA baseball was dominated by.

18 minutes ago, bmags said:

They are about to. They aren't planning on having fans this year but they hope to, just like MLB did. And  yet it restarteded without antagonism between the NBAPA and NBA baseball was dominated by.

No they are not. They are hoping to play 72 games. And that was missing 7 games from last season. MLB missed their entire season. If they played 140 games, that would be what the NBA is doing, and they didn't get 90% of the season in before the pandemic.

The MLB and MLBPA have like 2 and a half months to figure this out before scheduled spring training games begin. It's a lot different than last year when this all started literally right in the middle of spring training. If they can't come to some sort of agreement between now (mid December) and late February, I'm going to be feeling some type of way. They need to get together, talk to each other like civil adults, and FIGURE IT OUT.

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

No they are not. They are hoping to play 72 games. And that was missing 7 games from last season. MLB missed their entire season. If they played 140 games, that would be what the NBA is doing, and they didn't get 90% of the season in before the pandemic.

It's really obvious that the only sport that has owners who main objective is to not pay players is the MLB. I don't know why people are refuting this. The majority of revenue in sports does not come from the gate. 

The NBA is playing 72 games because they had to push last year back and they couldn't give the proper time for players to heal their bodies. It had nothing to do with money, unless you think the players association in the NBA is lying.

edit: And the salary cap is staying the exact same as it was last year, despite playing only 72 games and assuming fans won't be there for much of the season.

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

40 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

No they are not. They are hoping to play 72 games. And that was missing 7 games from last season. MLB missed their entire season. If they played 140 games, that would be what the NBA is doing, and they didn't get 90% of the season in before the pandemic.

They are playing 72 games without fans. The mlb could have played more. They didn’t want to so they could cut costs.

25 minutes ago, bmags said:

They are playing 72 games without fans. The mlb could have played more. They didn’t want to so they could cut costs.

Maybe, maybe not. If they lost their entire season last year to fan less games, I would bet this upcoming season would be a little different. 

 

Also, the MLB  players keeping protocol for 6 months? Yeah right. They were complaining they would have to go 2 months without seeing their families. 

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by Dick Allen

58 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

edit: And the salary cap is staying the exact same as it was last year, despite playing only 72 games and assuming fans won't be there for much of the season.

Well the details behind this are complicated. The Players didn't want the cap to plummet by what, 30% this year, due to being tied to last year's revenues? That's bad for the players and its bad for any team that would want to, say, re-sign a large Greek man for example. Hell, it would be bad for most teams too as teams would wind up having to pay the luxury tax just from their current contracts, without any regard to FA or trades. As a consequence, there was an agreement that the cap would stay flat this year, but with an acknowledgment that it is going to either have to drop sometime or stay flat for a number of years to make up for the losses. 

In other words, this is a case where both sides would have been in worse shape had they not come to an agreement. If you get MLB to that point - where both sides are being hurt by the lack of an agreement, then one will probably happen. That's what happened last summer when they got to enough time for about 60 games.

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well the details behind this are complicated. The Players didn't want the cap to plummet by what, 30% this year, due to being tied to last year's revenues? That's bad for the players and its bad for any team that would want to, say, re-sign a large Greek man for example. Hell, it would be bad for most teams too as teams would wind up having to pay the luxury tax just from their current contracts, without any regard to FA or trades. As a consequence, there was an agreement that the cap would stay flat this year, but with an acknowledgment that it is going to either have to drop sometime or stay flat for a number of years to make up for the losses. 

In other words, this is a case where both sides would have been in worse shape had they not come to an agreement. If you get MLB to that point - where both sides are being hurt by the lack of an agreement, then one will probably happen. That's what happened last summer when they got to enough time for about 60 games.

This was the speculation, but upon their last agreement. the cap will not stay flat after this year.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/11/06/report-nba-salary-cap-will-increase-at-least-2-annually/

That said, they are still going to hold 18% of player salaries in escrow. As you said, it's all complicated but with the cap guaranteed to grow 2% each of the next three years after this one, that escrow amount ends up shrinking down to under a 13% reduction in current salary (potentially) over that time period. To compare that with MLB, last year players took a 73% reduction in salaries and if owners hold firm again this season and push the season back to say June or July, you're looking at another 50% cut in their pay.

So you are correct that the NBA is cutting back somewhat, but they are not cutting back in the way that the MLB did or is doing due to fans not being in the stands. And the interesting thing to me is that the cap actually gave owners much more leverage in the NBA because salaries are directly tied to revenue. I guess it also makes making a deal a bit easier as well though. MLB owners are exploiting players because players don't have a cap so they can't tie their earnings to revenue like they do in the NBA. Lastly, as NBA revenue grows so do players salaries to the same proportion; in baseball, that has not been the case the last 10-20 years. Which is really what drives me crazy; MLB player revenue has declined as revenues grew, but now that revenue declines MLB wants the players to subsidize that. It's bullshit.

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

From my terribly pessimistic fan-perspective, his whole conversation stinks.

We have owners wanting to shorten the season, likely resulting in another round of partial salaries to contracts they signed to pay.

On the other side we have agents and the player union calling them out for it.

There's no place for politicking sports. I don't think we have the commissioner to properly navigate it either. Watch "Screwball" on Netflix if you want to know exactly what kind of leader Manfred is. 

I just want to watch baseball, dammit.

18 minutes ago, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said:

From my terribly pessimistic fan-perspective, his whole conversation stinks.

We have owners wanting to shorten the season, likely resulting in another round of partial salaries to contracts they signed to pay.

On the other side we have agents and the player union calling them out for it.

There's no place for politicking sports. I don't think we have the commissioner to properly navigate it either. Watch "Screwball" on Netflix if you want to know exactly what kind of leader Manfred is. 

I just want to watch baseball, dammit.

Tony LaRussa is sober compared to Rob Manfred. Just watch the video of Rob handing out what he publicly calls a "Piece of Metal". Hell, Hockey's Count Van Count may be more popular.

 

43 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Tony LaRussa is sober compared to Rob Manfred. Just watch the video of Rob handing out what he publicly calls a "Piece of Metal". Hell, Hockey's Count Van Count may be more popular.

This is the same guy who paid $700,000 to a "professional tanner" and a convicted felon for dirt on A-Rod.

9 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

You should legit change your username to Boomer.

You should legit change your name to coward

4 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

You should legit change your name to coward

 Why is that?

Your thoughts on this are frankly just dumb, old man takes.  It's not fearmongering, it's actually putting people's safety and health first during a fucking pandemic that has ravaged the entire world, not to mention our country. 

 If you want to question their actual motives I am fine with that. But calling it fearmongering is just flat out ignorant as hell. (No, this isn't just a "flu")

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

7 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

 Why is that?

Your thoughts on this are frankly just dumb, old man takes.  It's not fearmongering, it's actually putting people's safety and health first during a fucking pandemic that has ravaged the entire world, not to mention our country. 

 If you want to question their actual motives I am fine with that. But calling it fearmongering is just flat out ignorant as hell. (No, this isn't just a "flu")

I've had it.  I've had much worse flu cases than Covid.  It was incredibly mild.  Hell, I was out playing golf while I had it.  

People that live in common sense states (Florida/Texas) realize how overblown this is.  99% survival rate, and much higher for people under 60 without other underlying conditions.  We have a case of fear mongering by dipshit liberal states (like Illinois) where they are categorizing every freaking death as Covid related while ignoring every other condition the elderly person has.  

Then you got the mask sheep.  Those masks are really working well out in California.  LMAO!!!

9 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

I've had it.  I've had much worse flu cases than Covid.  It was incredibly mild.  Hell, I was out playing golf while I had it.  

People that live in common sense states (Florida/Texas) realize how overblown this is.  99% survival rate, and much higher for people under 60 without other underlying conditions.  We have a case of fear mongering by dipshit liberal states (like Illinois) where they are categorizing every freaking death as Covid related while ignoring every other condition the elderly person has.  

Then you got the mask sheep.  Those masks are really working well out in California.  LMAO!!!

You really are ignorant as all hell.

You have any idea how many people have underlying conditions? And how many different ways this virus can wreck you? And how overwhelmed the hospitals have been?

If you really think masks don't make any difference and refuse to wear one you are part of the problem.

You had it? Yet you clearly didn't learn anything. Being aware and precautions and fear mongering are two completely different things. 

It's a pandemic. What you deem as an insignificant death rate (it's much higher than your ridiculous claim, BTW) is still a LOT of fucking people.

The liberal states are where all the people are, somof course is spreads faster. This is just common sense.

And there is so much more wrong in your wall of text nonsense tripe I haven't even touched. 

 

And with that, your ignorant boomer ass will be the first person added to my ignore list as I don't need to find myself going off the rails over an ignorant fart like yourself. 

Was 1917 the year you were born or something?

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

2 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

You really are ignorant as all hell.

You have any idea how many people have underlying conditions? And how many different ways this virus can wreck you? And how overwhelmed the hospitals have been?

If you really think masks don't make any difference and refuse to wear one you are part of the problem.

You had it? Yet you clearly didn't learn anything. Being aware and precautions and fear mongering are two completely different things. 

It's a pandemic. What you deem as an insignificant death rate (it's much higher than your ridiculous claim, BTW) is still a LOT of fucking people.

The liberal states are where all the people are, somof course is spreads faster. This is just common sense.

And there is so much more wrong in your wall of text nonsense tripe I haven't even touched. 

 

And with that, your ignorant boomer ass will be the first person added to my ignore list as I don't need to find myself going off the rails over an ignorant fart like yourself. 

Ignore me loser.  Guarantee your scaredy cat ass is older than me anyway.  

8 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said:

Ignore me loser.  Guarantee your scaredy cat ass is older than me anyway.  

Yet your attitude is that of a stubborn, stupid late 60's man.

Still no idea where you get that I'm scared or a coward. 

Also fitting you didn't absorb a single thing I said. You're not worth the trouble, I prefer not to allow myself to stoop to your pitiful level. 

You're clearly past the possibility of learning something, anyway.

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

Yet your attitude is that of a stubborn, stupid late 60's man.

Still no idea where you get that I'm scared or a coward. 

Also fitting you didn't absorb a single thing I said. You're not worth the trouble, I prefer not to allow myself to stoop to your pitiful level. 

anyone changing their way of life due to Covid, or expecting others to, is a coward

12 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's really obvious that the only sport that has owners who main objective is to not pay players is the MLB. I don't know why people are refuting this. The majority of revenue in sports does not come from the gate. 

The NBA is playing 72 games because they had to push last year back and they couldn't give the proper time for players to heal their bodies. It had nothing to do with money, unless you think the players association in the NBA is lying.

edit: And the salary cap is staying the exact same as it was last year, despite playing only 72 games and assuming fans won't be there for much of the season.

Any sport with a salary cap and restricted free agency doesn't want to pay its players what they're worth.

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

anyone changing their way of life due to Covid, or expecting others to, is a coward

Or not a selfish damn fool.

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by zisk
add

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

anyone changing their way of life due to Covid, or expecting others to, is a coward

You are an ignorant piece of shit.

1 hour ago, ChiSox1917 said:

anyone changing their way of life due to Covid, or expecting others to, is a coward

Making a statement that is this ignorant, insensitive and inconsiderate behind the safety of your computer screen is the definition of cowardice. 

5 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Yet your attitude is that of a stubborn, stupid late 60's man.

Still no idea where you get that I'm scared or a coward. 

Also fitting you didn't absorb a single thing I said. You're not worth the trouble, I prefer not to allow myself to stoop to your pitiful level. 

You're clearly past the possibility of learning something, anyway.

Pretty sure moronic disinfo trolls come in all ages

5 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said:

anyone changing their way of life due to Covid, or expecting others to, is a coward

I would say those not willing to change are cowards. It’s a freaking pandemic. Over 300k lost. More people are dying from Covid everyday than anything else.