January 17, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, RagahRagah said: The "past few" seasons were not this one. This one has been treated as an all in season. The Lynn trade was an all in move. Yet apparently we are not going all in. Having a "pretty good team" is entirely irrelevant to the point here. We were a pretty good team without the trade.. Trading for Lynn is a win now move yet we are apparently not going to spend enough on our other needs to solidify that notion. Which makes the trade a waste. It would be different if he had multiple years left. It's not hard to understand. You are debating the shit out of something simple. Trading Dunning for Lynn was, is, and always will be because we did not have a 3rd starter in 2020 to start in the playoffs and it caused us a chance to advance deeper into the postseason, now we do. The total cost to the Sox was a cheap one year contract for Lynn and giving up the guy they didn't trust to start Game 3. Nowhere close to all-in.
January 17, 20215 yr 15 minutes ago, ptatc said: Yes you do. They tradided one if their promising starters, probably their 4th best one, to improve their chances thus year. If they trade multiple prospects and start to empty the farm, that is all in. Trading Dunning who I liked and is a good prospect is not all in. He is not Verlander and scherzer or even a kopexh, Crochet or Kelly for a ceiling. We all know improving your chances is not enough. You have to follow through. Teams don't trade quality controlled players for 1 year rentals unless they are going for it. You can keep contradicting me all you want, but it's contrary.
January 17, 20215 yr 17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: We’re arguing semantics here, but I would consider trading important core pieces like Cease, Kopech, Crochet, or Vaughn to be an all-in move. I love Dunning but he is simply not that caliber of prospect. I'd say Cease is arguable. Dunning is still a valuable asset who is coming along well. There is no point in trading that for a mere rental if it's not a win now move. Period.
January 17, 20215 yr 7 minutes ago, MeanJoeCrede said: You are debating the shit out of something simple. Trading Dunning for Lynn was, is, and always will be because we did not have a 3rd starter in 2020 to start in the playoffs and it caused us a chance to advance deeper into the postseason, now we do. The total cost to the Sox was a cheap one year contract for Lynn and giving up the guy they didn't trust to start Game 3. Nowhere close to all-in. One year rentals are for an all-in moves. There's literally no other point. You even just said yourself it's to advance deeper into the postseason. There are other moves we could get done simply just to get deeper, as are apparently being discussed. Unless you're looking to win it all now, there's just simply no point in doing this.
January 17, 20215 yr 12 minutes ago, RagahRagah said: I'd say Cease is arguable. Dunning is still a valuable asset who is coming along well. There is no point in trading that for a mere rental if it's not a win now move. Period. I'd be ok trading Cease and Madrigal as a start for a deal for Woodruff or Gallen and Cease alone for someone like Burnes. The Sox need someone that's dependable in the rotation, especially with a Giolito extension becoming less likely by the day.
January 17, 20215 yr 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'd be ok trading Cease and Madrigal as a start for a deal for Woodruff or Gallen and Cease alone for someone like Burnes. The Sox need someone that's dependable in the rotation, especially with a Giolito extension becoming less likely by the day. And someone who is under control for more than a year. If we are intent on keeping guys like Vaughn and Kopech Then we need to make our prospects count when it comes to trades. Trading one of our best prospects who is under control for several years for 1 rental of a 34 year old is not smart if they aren't pushing for it all this season. Dunning should have been used then for someone closer to who you are referring to. Now, that's not to say that couldn't still happen but if it doesn't, it just reeks of the usual Sox stupidity.
January 17, 20215 yr 7 hours ago, ptatc said: Because is was worth the shot to try to get Machado. The money is inconsequential. You say Bush league, I say good attempt to upgrade the team. Signing Machado's buddies has nothing to do with their ability to afford players now. We heard for years they were saving money to spend when it's time. Well, it's time. The millions they saved the last five years aren't being spent. They duped the fans... again.
January 17, 20215 yr 12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'd be ok trading Cease and Madrigal as a start for a deal for Woodruff or Gallen and Cease alone for someone like Burnes. The Sox need someone that's dependable in the rotation, especially with a Giolito extension becoming less likely by the day. Lol.
January 17, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, SoxAce said: Lol. I think it's very unlikely that they get an extension done at all if it's not done by OD. I know the Sox usually extend their players during Spring Training so I'm not giving up hope until like March 20th or so. Edited January 17, 20215 yr by Jack Parkman
January 17, 20215 yr The one thing I'll say about Giolito is he is very smart. I know he likes it here, especially with his old coach. That said I think he gets it more than most and will be a number driven guy. I don't think you're getting much of a hometown discount in terms of years or money with him. I have strong hope we do the right thing and pay him. That said we don't really have a track record of doing that with pitchers. Hopefully we can find "some" middle ground, but have a feeling he's going to win his deal.
January 17, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, black jack said: Signing Machado's buddies has nothing to do with their ability to afford players now. We heard for years they were saving money to spend when it's time. Well, it's time. The millions they saved the last five years aren't being spent. They duped the fans... again. It’s $13 million they don’t have to spend now, and it didn’t work. If they were willing to spend $13 million more than they were prepared to offer Machado to get him here, they would have been far better off just adding that to their offer. It was stupid. But they have done similar things for years. Money just pissed away. For a team that seems to have quite a tight budget, they have to be smarter when not trying to win. It didn’t take anyone to be Theo Epstein or Billy Beane to know Alonso and Jay was a bad idea.
January 17, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said: The one thing I'll say about Giolito is he is very smart. I know he likes it here, especially with his old coach. That said I think he gets it more than most and will be a number driven guy. I don't think you're getting much of a hometown discount in terms of years or money with him. I have strong hope we do the right thing and pay him. That said we don't really have a track record of doing that with pitchers. Hopefully we can find "some" middle ground, but have a feeling he's going to win his deal. Plus he knows what has happened to guys who have taken home town discounts. They get traded.
January 17, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: The one thing I'll say about Giolito is he is very smart. I know he likes it here, especially with his old coach. That said I think he gets it more than most and will be a number driven guy. I don't think you're getting much of a hometown discount in terms of years or money with him. I have strong hope we do the right thing and pay him. That said we don't really have a track record of doing that with pitchers. Hopefully we can find "some" middle ground, but have a feeling he's going to win his deal. Yup. They're not getting an extension done without his FA years he's giving up being worth at least 25-30M Edited January 17, 20215 yr by Jack Parkman
January 17, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Plus he knows what has happened to guys who have taken home town discounts. They get traded. Bingo.
January 17, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: It’s $13 million they don’t have to spend now, and it didn’t work. If they were willing to spend $13 million more than they were prepared to offer Machado to get him here, they would have been far better off just adding that to their offer. It was stupid. But they have done similar things for years. Money just pissed away. For a team that seems to have quite a tight budget, they have to be smarter when not trying to win. It didn’t take anyone to be Theo Epstein or Billy Beane to know Alonso and Jay was a bad idea. To me, the fact it was an obviously bad idea is actually overshadowed by how bush league and embarrassing it makes the organization look. Laughing stock type of foolishness.
January 17, 20215 yr 22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I think it's very unlikely that they get an extension done at all if it's not done by OD. I know the Sox usually extend their players during Spring Training so I'm not giving up hope until like March 20th or so. Actually...it would surprise me if Gio isn't extended soon and probably by OD.
January 17, 20215 yr 36 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Plus he knows what has happened to guys who have taken home town discounts. They get traded. I miss Tim anderson, Luis Robert, and Yoan Moncada.
January 17, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, RagahRagah said: We all know improving your chances is not enough. You have to follow through. Teams don't trade quality controlled players for 1 year rentals unless they are going for it. You can keep contradicting me all you want, but it's contrary. I would disagree. You may think it thr contrary but the entire actions of the Sox by refusing to trade the top prospects shows they are not all in. Going for it as you state here is not the same as bring all in as you were discussing earlier. I would agree they are going for it. They are trying to win. But they are not all in. That implies sacrificing everything to win now. Their actions do not support this.
January 17, 20215 yr 53 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It’s $13 million they don’t have to spend now, and it didn’t work. If they were willing to spend $13 million more than they were prepared to offer Machado to get him here, they would have been far better off just adding that to their offer. It was stupid. But they have done similar things for years. Money just pissed away. For a team that seems to have quite a tight budget, they have to be smarter when not trying to win. It didn’t take anyone to be Theo Epstein or Billy Beane to know Alonso and Jay was a bad idea. Altogether they spent about $50 million before 2019, counting those guys, acquiring Colome, Herrera, Nova, McCann, etc. McCann worked out great, Colome was useful the next year, but that was a lot of money to waste on a non competitive 2019 season.
January 17, 20215 yr 35 minutes ago, poppysox said: Actually...it would surprise me if Gio isn't extended soon and probably by OD. I think you are right. I don’t know that they will get more than 1 year of free agency bought out, but I think they could probably get one. Give up 1 year in exchange for guaranteeing $50 million or so isn’t a bad move.
January 17, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I think you are right. I don’t know that they will get more than 1 year of free agency bought out, but I think they could probably get one. Give up 1 year in exchange for guaranteeing $50 million or so isn’t a bad move. RH is the best in the business at these extensions. I think the compromise each side made to avoid arbitration is a good sign that everyone is playing nice.
January 17, 20215 yr Author 7 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: My money is still on Richards, although that “by Sunday” prediction is not looking so hot at the moment!
January 17, 20215 yr 2 hours ago, RagahRagah said: We all know improving your chances is not enough. You have to follow through. Teams don't trade quality controlled players for 1 year rentals unless they are going for it. You can keep contradicting me all you want, but it's contrary. How is Dunning a quality controlled player? Where’s the proof of quality? I’ll continue to wait all offseason.
January 17, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said: The one thing I'll say about Giolito is he is very smart. I know he likes it here, especially with his old coach. That said I think he gets it more than most and will be a number driven guy. I don't think you're getting much of a hometown discount in terms of years or money with him. I have strong hope we do the right thing and pay him. That said we don't really have a track record of doing that with pitchers. Hopefully we can find "some" middle ground, but have a feeling he's going to win his deal. Completely agreed.
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