2 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Thanks for the info, does that mean that say Charlotte Knights don't make money for themselves and are all part of the overall White Sox umbrella?

In Charlotte's case, they are owned by a different group than the White Sox. So, I would infer that their P&L is separate from the SOX's P&L.

AFAIK, there is a sporting affiliation between the White Sox and their minor league teams, as the ownership groups are separate.

If memory serves, there are a few MLB organizations that also own their minor league teams. St Louis Cardinals are one that own their minor league affiliates. In THEIR case, their P&Ls are tied together in some way.

 

I hope this helps. 

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I still don’t understand why the owners would give a better offer next week or even in April than they would give this week. 

I’m not saying they will other than trying to be optimistic in the moment.  When honestly there is little reason to be.  Two weeks probably doesn’t change the calculus much when the owners already have a set number of games in mind that they are willing to miss.  In two weeks we are likely right back where we were yesterday with more posturing over best and final offers that still aren’t good enough.  Attempt after futile attempt to make the Union cave.  Until owners feel that pain of lost revenue I fear this is going nowhere. 

4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Eugene made a thread about it.  He's the absolute best follow on twitter regarding this process.  He understands and explains all the ploys and dirty tricks Manfred utilizes as part of his negotiation style.  

 

Eugene’s threads are great reads.  

3 hours ago, Chimpton said:

As a UK Sox fan who has read this thread to try and educate myself more about this lockout, one thing that shocks me is how little most minor league players get paid. I know they are not MLB standard and many are young hopefuls but the games still get attendances who pay to go to the games and buy concessions etc. I know the aim is to make the MLB but for those who don't but have a good MiLB career they really should be paid better and should be able to afford accommodation that is not subsidized by the club.

Think of the minor leagues as a boot camp or war of attrition.  Teams don't want minor leaguers to get comfortable because then they won't work hard to get to the next level.  Move up or move out. Now I think it's gone a bit too far especially with regards to nutrition but you can talk to big leaguers and they will tell you they loved it because it forced them to get better and get better fast.  The players who do the complaining are the ones who never made it. 

I think that's too simplistic. Every player on an affiliated minor league team is a terrific baseball player who's been the best of the best in high school and/or college. They deserve a livable full-time wage, decent living conditions and good nutrition. Also remember that many of these guys are very young...some kind of life coaching/mentoring would be money so very well spent. I don't argue with the owners thoughts about reducing the number of minor league teams...from a pure financial perspective, if only one of four makes it the the majors, it makes sense to reduce the total numbers. But I do argue with the poor overall treatment of minor league players re. pay and conditions. To say poor treatment is incentive to move through faster isn't grounded in reality. I've long wished the MLBPA would take in affiliated minor league players, but they aren't able to take care of even the lowest paid major leaguers, so I don't see it happening. There has been some discussion of a minor league players union. I hope it happens.    

17 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Once the pandemic started I made numerous posts saying this and the new CBA were going to be major stumbling blocks to the Sox window of contention along with their inability to sign game changers and with the same people in charge who were responsible for making the calls that put them in a position to rebuild in the 1st place.

 

 

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Once the pandemic started I made numerous posts saying this and the new CBA were going to be major stumbling blocks to the Sox window of contention along with their inability to sign game changers and with the same people in charge who were responsible for making the calls that put them in a position to rebuild in the 1st place.

Wasn’t Reinsdorf the only owner to vote against Manfred on the grounds he wouldn’t be tough enough with the Union for JR’s taste?

 

This is exactly why I refused to buy anything until after the CBA was settled.

 

 

 

 

Yawn.  This sucks.

I totally get the players position.  Its a tough spot.  I definitely side with them in all of this, but I am able to see both sides.  Biggest issue I have is that this started out as being largely about getting the younger players in a better spot.  The proposed "best and final" offer from league/owners largely did that.  $130k raise for pre-arb players.  A bonus pool that never before existed for the best players.  Full year of service for the top 2 in ROY to try to help curb service time manipulation.  

It seems to me like the CBT threshold was the biggest hold up.  This isn't impacting the little guy.  This is impacting the guys getting mega deals, who are largely the guys at the front and center of this (Scherzer, most notably). Giolito's comments about having a 15-20 year career and wanting to make a change is great and all, but the dudes that really get fucked in all of this are the little guys.  Giolito is going to sign a big contract is 2 years that sets him up for life no matter what the new CBA looks like. How about the guys on his team (and many more around the league) that will never get a big FA contract and didn't get a big draft signing bonus?  Those are the dude's that have to be scratching their head right now.  And the game is predominantly made up of those guys.  They just got 22.8% raise. And now they're getting nothing until the big dicks figure it out.  They just got one of their limited opening days taken away that they'll never get back.  I have to imagine most of the younger players that don't have star upside think the proposal put in front of them wasn't that bad.  Its certainly an improvement on the previous CBA.

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Wasn’t Reinsdorf the only owner to vote against Manfred on the grounds he wouldn’t be tough enough with the Union for JR’s taste?

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/madden-waging-old-school-battle-jerry-reinsdorf-defeated-rob-manfred-elected-mlb-commissioner-article-1.1904457

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

So tired reading this BS from players also.

If they truly wanted to "improve" the game then they'd buy into a salary floor which would then also lead to a cap with it.  

Pushing the Tax to the higher levels only helps the rich get richer. 

Force the Pirates, Indians, Rays, Royals, As to spend with a floor.

 

 

The MLB's initial offer that included a salary floor of $100 mill shows you just how much the lower spending teams can actually spend and don't.

Edited March 2, 20224 yr by Bob Sacamano

11 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

So tired reading this BS from players also.

If they truly wanted to "improve" the game then they'd buy into a salary floor which would then also lead to a cap with it.  

Pushing the Tax to the higher levels only helps the rich get richer. 

Force the Pirates, Indians, Rays, Royals, As to spend with a floor.

 

 

If it takes 8 teams to block a deal, and a salary floor is likely to impact at least that many, this may have been discussed but the level of trade offs required to make it happen could have been too big.

35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

This is maybe a stupid question... But presumably the players aren't being paid during the lockout right?

If that is the case, why would Bonilla be any different?

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere in the thread.

3 minutes ago, KipWellsFan said:

This is maybe a stupid question... But presumably the players aren't being paid during the lockout right?

If that is the case, why would Bonilla be any different?

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere in the thread.

MLBs position is that players are not getting paid for games not played.  Bonilla isn't getting paid for playing in 22; he gets paid deferred compensation.  Completely different thing. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Here is a good example of the little guy getting crushed.  You think this guy wasn't happy to get a $130k raise?  What exactly are these negotiations (at this point) doing to help a player like this?  

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Here is a good example of the little guy getting crushed.  You think this guy wasn't happy to get a $130k raise?  What exactly are these negotiations (at this point) doing to help a player like this?  

He wouldn't have gotten this raise.