March 2, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, bmags said: As much as I hate baseball right now please consider supporting baseball America, BP and fangraphs, who even the last few months have kept me entertained and don’t deserve this shit if the last few years. I'm starting to have a problem with data and sites like fangraphs. Not because data is inherently wrong, but because it's used to devalue and commodify players. Pro athletes are human beings too.
March 2, 20224 yr 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm starting to have a problem with data and sites like fangraphs. Not because data is inherently wrong, but because it's used to devalue and commodify players. Pro athletes are human beings too. ???…you crack me up Parkman
March 2, 20224 yr 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm starting to have a problem with data and sites like fangraphs. Not because data is inherently wrong, but because it's used to devalue and commodify players. Pro athletes are human beings too. I try not to think of them as human beings....that kind of thinking makes me treat them too nice in the GameThreads.
March 2, 20224 yr Just now, Chicago White Sox said: ???…you crack me up Parkman what the fuck is so funny.........we do treat them like cattle on this board, all too often. We all gave Jose Contreras shit that one year without knowing he was going through a divorce.
March 2, 20224 yr 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: what the fuck is so funny.........we do treat them like cattle on this board, all too often. We all gave Jose Contreras shit that one year without knowing he was going through a divorce. Your complete lack of reality when it comes to labor relations. Please explain to me how Fangraphs is being used to devalue and commodity players.
March 2, 20224 yr 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Your complete lack of reality when it comes to labor relations. Please explain to me how Fangraphs is being used to devalue and commodity players. He meant OnlyFans
March 2, 20224 yr Author 50 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: This is just how negotiations work. Both parties have their own needs and wants and if one party will not budge than a deal isn’t going to happen for a while until someone eventually gives in. What I think is going to eventually happen is the MLBPA is going to be forced to accept a deal because players will not be able to afford losing paychecks. You lost me in the 1st sentence. Negotiations imply 2 parties negotiating in good faith. That has never happened here.
March 2, 20224 yr 37 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: There's negotiating happening, but it is the MLBPA against itself. Exactly. No REAL negotiating is happening
March 2, 20224 yr Author 35 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm starting to have a problem with data and sites like fangraphs. Not because data is inherently wrong, but because it's used to devalue and commodify players. Pro athletes are human beings too. Yes because contract negotiations and arbitration haven't been doing that for decades.
March 2, 20224 yr If anyone has some of the top cattle advanced milk production stat sites for me to get into during the lockout please share it to me. Just getting into cattle stats
March 2, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, bmags said: If anyone has some of the top cattle advanced milk production stat sites for me to get into during the lockout please share it to me. Just getting into cattle stats How about pigs instead. They are a bigger money producer as the turn over faster than cattle. The stats are much more volatile and track faster. Problems is they are messy and nasty to deal with.
March 2, 20224 yr 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: How about pigs instead. They are a bigger money producer as the turn over faster than cattle. The stats are much more volatile and track faster. Problems is they are messy and nasty to deal with.
March 2, 20224 yr The players put out a good faith offer that was fair, reasonable, and well deserved that was rejected. That has put them in a bad position. They should have put out one that was way too far in their advantage and then had room to move like the owners did. I've gone from neutral to the player's side. From what we are reading they are really being treated unfairly in the negotiations.
March 2, 20224 yr Author 36 minutes ago, ptatc said: How about pigs instead. They are a bigger money producer as the turn over faster than cattle. The stats are much more volatile and track faster. Problems is they are messy and nasty to deal with. And they become bacon. Win/win.
March 2, 20224 yr Author 18 minutes ago, StrangeSox said: Good lord. That Russian troll farm bad though they might be busy.
March 2, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Your complete lack of reality when it comes to labor relations. Please explain to me how Fangraphs is being used to devalue and commodity players. MLB in their initial proposal wanted to pay players with a formula based on fWAR rather than through arbitration. That was ridiculous and a non-starter, but it still existed. It's bullshit because certain positions are devalued in fWAR calculations, like 1B and corner OF. Edited March 2, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman
March 2, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: Yes because contract negotiations and arbitration haven't been doing that for decades. Yes, and it's wrong there too. The club shouldn't be lowballing a player like, say, Mookie Betts in arbitration, just because they can. There is no reason why arbitration should be a regularity rather than a rarity. Teams and players are allowed to agree to a one year contract without going to arbitration. My opinion is and always has been that if a business can't pay it's employees a living wage in regular society, or a fair wage based on profits in pro sports, then the business shouldn't be allowed to exist or the owner shouldn't be allowed to own the team. Sports franchises are not normal businesses and are a) public trusts and b) a hobby for the ultra wealthy. Unfortunately, the people that own sports franchises have convinced the public otherwise. Edited March 2, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman
March 2, 20224 yr 16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: MLB in their initial proposal wanted to pay players with a formula based on fWAR rather than through arbitration. That was ridiculous and a non-starter, but it still existed. It's bullshit because certain positions are devalued in fWAR calculations, like 1B and corner OF. Again, you have no idea how the real world works if you actually think an objective, data driven performance management system is somehow worse than the subjective bullshit most of us have to deal with in our professions.
March 2, 20224 yr 22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Yes, and it's wrong there too. The club shouldn't be lowballing a player like, say, Mookie Betts in arbitration, just because they can. There is no reason why arbitration should be a regularity rather than a rarity. Teams and players are allowed to agree to a one year contract without going to arbitration. My opinion is and always has been that if a business can't pay it's employees a living wage in regular society, or a fair wage based on profits in pro sports, then the business shouldn't be allowed to exist or the owner shouldn't be allowed to own the team. Sports franchises are not normal businesses and are a) public trusts and b) a hobby for the ultra wealthy. Unfortunately, the people that own sports franchises have convinced the public otherwise. When unions are involved there is no such things. It's what can be collectively bargained. There is no right and wrong, no black and white. It's what can be agreed upon. If it can't be agreed upon, it's what the mediator or arbiter can force them to agreed to.
March 2, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, bmags said: If anyone has some of the top cattle advanced milk production stat sites for me to get into during the lockout please share it to me. Just getting into cattle stats http://moojerleaguebaseball.com
March 2, 20224 yr 10 minutes ago, ptatc said: When unions are involved there is no such things. It's what can be collectively bargained. There is no right and wrong, no black and white. It's what can be agreed upon. If it can't be agreed upon, it's what the mediator or arbiter can force them to agreed to. Given that all major pro sports leagues have unions, I agree. A revenue split should be part of the negotiation in MLB. It happens in all of the other leagues, why not here? Edited March 2, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman
March 2, 20224 yr 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Again, you have no idea how the real world works if you actually think an objective, data driven performance management system is somehow worse than the subjective bullshit most of us have to deal with in our professions. It is when its only being used to suppress wages. Ideally, you'd like objectivity, but I don't think people would like objectivity if it meant everyone getting paid less except the absolute top producers. Do you think you're in the top 10% of your profession? If not, objective measures would likely be used to suppress your wages. I hate subjective bullshit as much(if not more) as anyone, but I can put up with it if it means getting paid fairly. The search for "economic efficiency" is hurting the world. Edited March 2, 20224 yr by Jack Parkman
March 2, 20224 yr 33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: MLB in their initial proposal wanted to pay players with a formula based on fWAR rather than through arbitration. That was ridiculous and a non-starter, but it still existed. It's bullshit because certain positions are devalued in fWAR calculations, like 1B and corner OF. I'd actually prefer this, as it could help the SOX stop overvaluing certain positions, like 1B and RP.
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