January 31, 20224 yr Just to break the monotony, would be interested in your views of trade scenarios assuming we made Vaughn the centerpiece. Depending on the target, we would likely need to add a lower tier player or two to even the value but this is more or less a proxy for the positions you feel should/could be addressed by trade. I'm not advocating a Vaughn trade and would hope we might be able to improve by signing a free agent or two but here are 3 that might work: 1) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger) for John Means (Orioles SP)? 2) Vaughn to NYY for Joey Gallo and Luis Gil? 3) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger and Kelley) for Ketel Marte? Thoughts?
January 31, 20224 yr The only one of those I would have any interest in at all is #3. But I don’t think that would be enough for Arizona.
January 31, 20224 yr 1. Means: No. 2. Vaughn to rent a .200 hitter for 1 season: No (and I know I didn't put Gallo in best light, but the Sox have been down that road before). 3. Probably a positive expectation trade (although I wouldn't do it). Edited January 31, 20224 yr by GreenSox
January 31, 20224 yr 12 hours ago, Flash said: Just to break the monotony, would be interested in your views of trade scenarios assuming we made Vaughn the centerpiece. Depending on the target, we would likely need to add a lower tier player or two to even the value but this is more or less a proxy for the positions you feel should/could be addressed by trade. I'm not advocating a Vaughn trade and would hope we might be able to improve by signing a free agent or two but here are 3 that might work: 1) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger) for John Means (Orioles SP)? 2) Vaughn to NYY for Joey Gallo and Luis Gil? 3) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger and Kelley) for Ketel Marte? Thoughts? Why move Vaught to get a SP, when we can just sign Rodon for money and not lose young light salaray players? No way do I want Gallo in our line up and not willing to give up a guy that costs $20M less that can potentially put up better numbers I wouldn't mind Ketel Marte, but I don't think Vaughn and lower prospects get it done cause Marte has 2-3 years left, I think? I would rather try and center something around Abrams from SD. They are in Win Now mode, and Kimbrel lines up with them really well. I'd send Kimbrel to them with a lower prospect for Abrams. He may not start out in the majors, but the hope would be we could use our young guys at 2B until Abrams is ready, and then have a cheap guy in that position while our other top guys salaries start to increase rapidly over the next 2-3 years.
January 31, 20224 yr 13 hours ago, Flash said: Just to break the monotony, would be interested in your views of trade scenarios assuming we made Vaughn the centerpiece. Depending on the target, we would likely need to add a lower tier player or two to even the value but this is more or less a proxy for the positions you feel should/could be addressed by trade. I'm not advocating a Vaughn trade and would hope we might be able to improve by signing a free agent or two but here are 3 that might work: 1) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger) for John Means (Orioles SP)? 2) Vaughn to NYY for Joey Gallo and Luis Gil? 3) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger and Kelley) for Ketel Marte? Thoughts? Gosh #1 and #2 would be horrendous.
January 31, 20224 yr 13 hours ago, Flash said: Just to break the monotony, would be interested in your views of trade scenarios assuming we made Vaughn the centerpiece. Depending on the target, we would likely need to add a lower tier player or two to even the value but this is more or less a proxy for the positions you feel should/could be addressed by trade. I'm not advocating a Vaughn trade and would hope we might be able to improve by signing a free agent or two but here are 3 that might work: 1) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger) for John Means (Orioles SP)? 2) Vaughn to NYY for Joey Gallo and Luis Gil? 3) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger and Kelley) for Ketel Marte? Thoughts? Depending on who else they sign, I could be open to number 3. Definitely no to the first 2.
January 31, 20224 yr 13 hours ago, Flash said: Just to break the monotony, would be interested in your views of trade scenarios assuming we made Vaughn the centerpiece. Depending on the target, we would likely need to add a lower tier player or two to even the value but this is more or less a proxy for the positions you feel should/could be addressed by trade. I'm not advocating a Vaughn trade and would hope we might be able to improve by signing a free agent or two but here are 3 that might work: 1) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger) for John Means (Orioles SP)? 2) Vaughn to NYY for Joey Gallo and Luis Gil? 3) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger and Kelley) for Ketel Marte? Thoughts? The third one is the only one that makes a lick of sense. I am not trading Vaughn tho.
January 31, 20224 yr Trading Vaughn is just a terrible idea. There's no huge upgrade that makes trading him worth it in any sense. We already have an amazing offense and a really good staff. Of course we have some holes, but all of the holes can be filled for free in free agency, or at worst, using other assets.
January 31, 20224 yr 5 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said: Trading Vaughn is just a terrible idea. There's no huge upgrade that makes trading him worth it in any sense. We already have an amazing offense and a really good staff. Of course we have some holes, but all of the holes can be filled for free in free agency, or at worst, using other assets. Conforto for RF and Simmons/Iglesias for 2B. Let’s go.
January 31, 20224 yr Hypothetical trades are not allowed during "just spend more money" season. Wait until every free agent has signed and the fanbase will be much more eager to approve hypothetical deals. My take: I think the Sox were shopping Vaughn this time last season, they should have a good idea of what his value was then. If he is still similarly valued, I'd trade him for a better fit. I don't believe the Sox will move on from Abreu after this season. Two more years of Yaz needing time at DH. Eloy might need some or all of the at-bats at DH. They have a glut at 1B/DH types. I think when you draft the best college hitter despite him not being a perfect fit, you have to be willing to trade him. BUT if Vaughn has hurt his value since last offseason, and that is entirely possible, I sincerely hope the Sox do not sell low on him.
January 31, 20224 yr 31 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Conforto for RF and Simmons/Iglesias for 2B. Let’s go. Easy peasy.
January 31, 20224 yr 9 minutes ago, GREEDY said: Hypothetical trades are not allowed during "just spend more money" season. Wait until every free agent has signed and the fanbase will be much more eager to approve hypothetical deals. My take: I think the Sox were shopping Vaughn this time last season, they should have a good idea of what his value was then. If he is still similarly valued, I'd trade him for a better fit. I don't believe the Sox will move on from Abreu after this season. Two more years of Yaz needing time at DH. Eloy might need some or all of the at-bats at DH. They have a glut at 1B/DH types. I think when you draft the best college hitter despite him not being a perfect fit, you have to be willing to trade him. BUT if Vaughn has hurt his value since last offseason, and that is entirely possible, I sincerely hope the Sox do not sell low on him. Vaughn can play LF. Eloy can DH. Days Yaz needs to DH/1B, Vaughn/Jose/Eloy/[Conforto] can get a breather. Plenty of at bats to go around. No need to trade Vaughn unless you get bowled over.
January 31, 20224 yr 52 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Conforto for RF and Simmons/Iglesias for 2B. Let’s go. I am absolutely on board for Simmons at 2B.
January 31, 20224 yr 16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: No need to trade Vaughn unless you get bowled over. Would you consider no 2B, RF or SP depth a "need" if the Sox are up against their budget? Obviously, none of us know for sure, but I'd say it is definitely a possibility. I'm ok with trading for a need IF it is a fair swap. I'll also speculate that we could be selling high on his LF defense.
January 31, 20224 yr 13 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I am absolutely on board for Simmons at 2B. Defense defense defense Definitely not one of our strengths. Edited January 31, 20224 yr by Bob Sacamano
January 31, 20224 yr 46 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Defense defense defense Definitely not one of our strengths. Plus we’ve got Romy and Leury who could likely give us league average offense at 2B. Get the defense first middle infielder and let our filler bats do some work
January 31, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, GREEDY said: Would you consider no 2B, RF or SP depth a "need" if the Sox are up against their budget? Obviously, none of us know for sure, but I'd say it is definitely a possibility. I'm ok with trading for a need IF it is a fair swap. I'll also speculate that we could be selling high on his LF defense. I don't think we NEED SP. I think the Sox sign a legit RF (Conforto) and a cheap 2B (several options). I don't think the Sox should trade Vaughn to fill either. Would I trade Vaughn for Marte? Yeah, maybe. But now we need a LF/DH and and RF (no I don't care about Sheets). Just plugs a hole we created with the dumb AF Madrigal trade by creating another hole in trading away another pre-arb potential star in Vaughn. Keep Vaughn. Sign Conforto. Sign a cheap 2B. Go to battle with best roster in AL. Edited January 31, 20224 yr by ChiSox59
January 31, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, GREEDY said: Would you consider no 2B, RF or SP depth a "need" if the Sox are up against their budget? Obviously, none of us know for sure, but I'd say it is definitely a possibility. I'm ok with trading for a need IF it is a fair swap. I'll also speculate that we could be selling high on his LF defense. At the current payroll? No, I don't think they would increase the payroll where they currently are at. I think they deal Kimbrel though and that will open space in the budget.
January 31, 20224 yr Author 17 hours ago, Flash said: Just to break the monotony, would be interested in your views of trade scenarios assuming we made Vaughn the centerpiece. Depending on the target, we would likely need to add a lower tier player or two to even the value but this is more or less a proxy for the positions you feel should/could be addressed by trade. I'm not advocating a Vaughn trade and would hope we might be able to improve by signing a free agent or two but here are 3 that might work: 1) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger) for John Means (Orioles SP)? 2) Vaughn to NYY for Joey Gallo and Luis Gil? 3) Vaughn (maybe plus Burger and Kelley) for Ketel Marte? Thoughts? The above was posited based upon my belief (unfounded of course) that Sox will not be spending big bucks on FAs (sorry Comforto fans). Means is arguably the best pitcher who MIGHT be available through trade, although who knows what Baltimore is considering. As to Gallo/Gil...Gallo had a shit year in '20 but has 1 yr. left at $10M and, in addition to elite LH power, provides GG corner defense. From what I've read and seen of Colas, he might be ready for the bigs by '23 and Gallo can move on (unless we want to resign him). Gil definitely looks the part of a middle-bottom rotation piece or set-up man and is worth rolling the dice on Katz coaching. Marte is Marte and a perfect fit. I'm a huge Vaughn fan but we have very little by way of trade chits and Vaughn is arguably the most valuable among the replaceable. He would likely start the season as back-up to Eloy in LF and the weak-side of a RF platoon with Sheets (and some DH vs. LH pitching). I'd rather not trade him but as I mentioned, sadly, I don't think we sign a big money FA unless we somehow move Kimbrel and Keuchel. Personally, I think the Sox would better themselves with any of those three options but I'd be most in favor of #1 or #2. Edited January 31, 20224 yr by Flash
January 31, 20224 yr 5 minutes ago, Flash said: The above was posited based upon my belief (unfounded of course) that Sox will not be spending big bucks on FAs (sorry Comforto fans). Means is arguably the best pitcher who MIGHT be available through trade, although who knows what Baltimore is considering. As to Gallo/Gil...Gallo had a shit year in '20 but has 1 yr. left at $10M and, in addition to elite LH power, provides GG corner defense. From what I've read and seen of Colas, he might be ready for the bigs by '23 and Gallo can move on (unless we want to resign him). Gil definitely looks the part of a middle-bottom rotation piece or set-up man and is worth rolling the dice on Katz coaching. Marte is Marte and a perfect fit. I'm a huge Vaughn fan but we have very little by way of trade chits and Vaughn is arguably the most valuable among the replaceable. He would likely start the season as back-up to Eloy in LF and the weak-side of a RF platoon with Sheets (and some DH vs. LH pitching). I'd rather not trade him but as I mentioned, sadly, I don't think we sign a big money FA unless we somehow move Kimbrel and Keuchel. Personally, I think the Sox would better themselves with any of those three options but I'd be most in favor of #1 or #2. I don't think they will move Keuchel but I bet Kimbrel gets moved. It might be enough to bring in Conforto. I feel like he will sign for 4 years in the $64-$80 mill range, unless he gets a high AAV one year deal (higher than qualifying offer) somewhere.
January 31, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: I don't think we NEED SP. I think the Sox sign a legit RF (Conforto) and a cheap 2B (several options). I don't think the Sox should trade Vaughn to fill either. Would I trade Vaughn for Marte? Yeah, maybe. But now we need a LF/DH and and RF (no I don't care about Sheets). Just plugs a hole we created with the dumb AF Madrigal trade by creating another hole in trading away another pre-arb potential star in Vaughn. Keep Vaughn. Sign Conforto. Sign a cheap 2B. Go to battle with best roster in AL. I get the feeling that coming off of an extra long year (playoffs) after a 60 game season, we aren't out of the clouds for seeing lots of pitching related problems. I would love to go into the season with both extra and deeper starting pitching than is normally expected.
January 31, 20224 yr 20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I get the feeling that coming off of an extra long year (playoffs) after a 60 game season, we aren't out of the clouds for seeing lots of pitching related problems. I would love to go into the season with both extra and deeper starting pitching than is normally expected. I expect the Sox to bring in a cheap vet or 2 to compete with Keuchel and provide insurance for Kopech. I am not trading Vaughn just to push Keuchel out of the rotation though. He's a plenty servicible 5 for this team in this division.
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