2022-23 NFL Season thread

[Harold's Leg Lift]

19 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

You do get your QB on a rookie contract for 2 more years. I just wonder what Fields would be like with decent protection and some top receivers.

I don't think they would take the gamble. Some of these top picks have really sucked, and even starting a rookie, you are pretty much punting on 2023.

They can upgrade the QB position and pick up a couple firsts in the process it's definitely something they have to strongly consider.  They're not going to be good next year anyway and this would put the QB and team on a much better timeline for that to happen.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, scs787 said:

The way I see it, the 9 spots on the offensive and defensive line are the biggest problems on this team. 

 

Of those 9, I think it's realistic to say 2 should no doubt be back and start in Whitehair and Jenkins. Injuries are a concern with both, yes, but that is what it is in the NFL. Then there's 2 other guys that I wouldn't hate to see back and starting in Justin Jones and a stronger Braxton Jones(Preferably on the right side.) There's an argument to be made that a combo of Dom Rob and Trevis Gipson on one side at DE. With better talent on the line, I could see Gipson have a bounce back year.

 

So with 125M and 3 picks in the top 75, I really think they can fill those 4-7 positions on the lines and it's gonna make a world of difference.  

 

Will it make them the favorites? No maybe not. Detroit is for real, Packers and Vikings are still relevant too. But I do think they can contend of they play their cards right NEXT year.

All that cap space is nice but unfortunately in the NFL star players rarely hit free agency these days. And when they do, you have to massively overpay to sign them. The only way to sustain a winning franchise in the NFL is to build through the draft. Supplementing with free agents is fine but it should not be relied on as the primary option for filling roster holes.

[Tony]

2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This entire discussion is based on my belief that this rebuild that the bears are attempting will fall flat on its face because they’re going about it all wrong. You disagree, clearly, based on your statement that you expect the bears to be division favorites in 2024. Wanna bet on that???

Not until you answer the question, which you still haven’t done. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

23 minutes ago, Tony said:

Not until you answer the question, which you still haven’t done. 

What question are you talking about?

[Tony]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What question are you talking about?

 

On 1/2/2023 at 2:42 PM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Someone give me an example where a total rebuild that was kickstarted by drafting a QB actually resulted in team success. Seems to me that most teams trying this are teams like the Texans, Jaguars, and Cardinals. Heck, even the Bengals built out much of their roster before they drafted Burrow. I don’t know, it seems drafting the QB first results in outcomes like David Carr, Blake Bortles, and Kyler Murray more often than they do Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, and Aaron Rodgers.

Quote

 

Last season the Bengals made the Super Bowl. They were led by Joe Burrow (2020 Draft), Ja’Marr Chase (2021), DJ Reader (2020 FA), Logan Wilson (2020), Tee Higgins (2020), Trey Hendrickson (2021 FA), Joe Mixon (2017), Vonn Bell (2020 FA) and Larry Ogunjobi (2021 FA)

Who are these other key, long term Bengals that were the foundation of the 2021 Super Bowl Bengals?

 

On 1/2/2023 at 7:54 PM, Tony said:

It absolutely was. But again, as multiple people have already said, just because the Bengals did it one way, doesn't mean that's the only path. More importantly, that's not what you said, by any stretch. 

So as we've already asked, as Burrow was drafted in April of 2020, when you say "much of their roster", who are these players? How strong was the core of the 2019 Bengals, a team that went 2-14? Just answer the question. 

Your entire is argument is based around the fact drafting your franchise QB when the rest of your team isn't ready to compete is a flawed strategy. You claimed the Bengals "built out much of their roster before they drafted Burrow"

Joe Burrow was drafted in 2020, and in 2019 the Bengals went 2-14. So who are these players that the Bengals had on their roster BEFORE Burrow got there that helped lead them to a Super Bowl? 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

22 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

Your entire is argument is based around the fact drafting your franchise QB when the rest of your team isn't ready to compete is a flawed strategy. You claimed the Bengals "built out much of their roster before they drafted Burrow"

Joe Burrow was drafted in 2020, and in 2019 the Bengals went 2-14. So who are these players that the Bengals had on their roster BEFORE Burrow got there that helped lead them to a Super Bowl? 

The Bengals drafted Burrow in 2020. Looking at their current offensive and defensive depth chart as shown on ESPN, 10 of the 21 starting positions are players that have been with the Bengals since at least 2020.

How many starters in 2024 (the year you say the Bears will be division favorites) will have been with the Bears since at least 2021 (the year Fields was drafted)? You don’t think the foundation for that next competitive Bengals team was much further along than what the Bears built when drafting Fields? LOL. Which players that have been with the Bears since 2021 do you see as starters in 2024? Now you answer my question too sir.

Edited January 6, 2023 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Tony]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The Bengals drafted Burrow in 2020. Looking at their current offensive and defensive depth chart as shown on ESPN, 10 of the 21 starting positions are players that have been with the Bengals since at least 2020. How many starters in 2024 (the year you say the Bears will be division favorites) will have been with the Bears since at least 2021 (the year Fields was drafted)? You don’t think the foundation for that next competitive Bengals team was much further along than what the Bears built when drafting Fields? LOL. Which players that have been with the Bears since 2021 do you see as starters in 2024? Now you answer my question to on sir.

Alright, just wanted to confirm you were completely full of s%*# and had no idea what you were talking about. I knew it, just wanted to get confirmation. You couldn't name a single player. Also, as a cherry on top, the "parameters" you used in your search were from "at least 2020", which is the year that Burrow got there, so that doesn't even match up to what you said. 

Bad showing by you...just bad. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

13 minutes ago, Tony said:

Alright, just wanted to confirm you were completely full of s%*# and had no idea what you were talking about. I knew it, just wanted to get confirmation. You couldn't name a single player. Also, as a cherry on top, the "parameters" you used in your search were from "at least 2020", which is the year that Burrow got there, so that doesn't even match up to what you said. 

Bad showing by you...just bad. 

Current Bengals starters that have been with the team since Burrow was drafted:

Jonah Williams, Joe Mixon, Tyler Boyd, Hakeem Adeniji, Sam Hubbard, DJ Reader, Logan Wilson, Germaine Pratt, Akeem Davis-Gaither, Vonn Bell, Jessie Bates

you still haven’t answered my question. Not surprising. You only like to nitpick others but not allow others to nitpick you. You said you expect the bears to be division favorites in 2024. Your words. I’ll bet you they won’t be. Whoever loses, admits the other was right and stays off soxtalk for 6 months. Deal? Or do you just talk a big game and have nothing to back it up?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Here’s the bet…

@Tonysays he expects the Bears will be division favorites going into the 2024 season. We can use draftkings for odds. On September 1, 2024, I say the Bears will NOT be favored to win the NFC North.

Loser of the bet admits the other was right and is banned from the site for 6 months (duration of 2024 NFL season).

We have a deal @Tony?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Suddenly @Tonygot real quiet. Don’t want to take the bet eh? Bad showing by you…just bad.

[Tony]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Suddenly @Tonygot real quiet. Don’t want to take the bet eh? Bad showing by you…just bad.

Sorry, I have a job and obligations, I don't get paid to make bets with dolts. You also couldn't contain yourself, you posted that I got "real quiet" in less than hour, it took you three days to "answer" my question, and you totally moved the goalposts on what you originally stated, because you were called out for it by multiple people. 

I answered the question, the same one you asked me days ago. You know what I said. You're more than welcome to leave the site at anytime, with or without the Bears record factoring into the decision. 

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

Sorry, I have a job and obligations, I don't get paid to make bets with dolts. You also couldn't contain yourself, you posted that I got "real quiet" in less than hour, it took you three days to "answer" my question, and you totally moved the goalposts on what you originally stated, because you were called out for it by multiple people. 

I answered the question, the same one you asked me days ago. You know what I said. You're more than welcome to leave the site at anytime, with or without the Bears record factoring into the decision. 

 

So, I’ll take that as you’re backtracking on your expectation that the Bears will be division favorites in 2024? Got it. Because if you actually believed the garbage you’re spewing you’d take the bet. Talk about moving the goalposts!

Edited January 6, 2023 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[scs787]

Soooooo...

 

Bryce Young and CJ Stroud.... are they better prospects than Fields? I'm really trying to wrap my head around all this as I don't really hate the idea. Not because I don't like Fields, but if these guy are "Better," it does make some sense. 

 

Is there any comp to what a Fields trade could look like? 

[Tony]

1 minute ago, scs787 said:

Soooooo...

 

Bryce Young and CJ Stroud.... are they better prospects than Fields? I'm really trying to wrap my head around all this as I don't really hate the idea. Not because I don't like Fields, but if these guy are "Better," it does make some sense. 

 

Is there any comp to what a Fields trade could look like? 

The only reason I could see it being a realistic option is Fields not being a Poles guy. Wanting to win with “his guy” 

I still think it’s super unlikely 

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Soooooo...

 

Bryce Young and CJ Stroud.... are they better prospects than Fields? I'm really trying to wrap my head around all this as I don't really hate the idea. Not because I don't like Fields, but if these guy are "Better," it does make some sense. 

 

Is there any comp to what a Fields trade could look like? 

At this time in 2021, Fields was talked about as a potential top 2 pick. Teams like the 49ers and Jets talked themselves into other Quarterbacks during the scouting periods.

I think there's a chance Young is looked at as a slightly better prospect as Fields, but he's not on the "Trevor Lawrence" level because of his height (6'0" if he's on his tiptoes). I think Stroud is somewhat comparable to where Fields was viewed at the time. 

Selling on Fields would presumably be something like trading for an additional mid-first-round pick, comparable to the pick that was originally used on him. The fact that he's used up a couple years of pre-free-agency should drop his value a little bit compared to guys with a full 5 years, but he doesn't look like a bust as some of his draft contemporaries do, so somewhere in picks 10-20? I could see a team like the Jets or Colts missing out on veteran options and maybe trying to meet that price, but I'd probably hold onto him personally. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

At this time in 2021, Fields was talked about as a potential top 2 pick. Teams like the 49ers and Jets talked themselves into other Quarterbacks during the scouting periods.

I think there's a chance Young is looked at as a slightly better prospect as Fields, but he's not on the "Trevor Lawrence" level because of his height (6'0" if he's on his tiptoes). I think Stroud is somewhat comparable to where Fields was viewed at the time. 

Selling on Fields would presumably be something like trading for an additional mid-first-round pick, comparable to the pick that was originally used on him. The fact that he's used up a couple years of pre-free-agency should drop his value a little bit compared to guys with a full 5 years, but he doesn't look like a bust as some of his draft contemporaries do, so somewhere in picks 10-20? I could see a team like the Jets or Colts missing out on veteran options and maybe trying to meet that price, but I'd probably hold onto him personally. 

If you can get the Jets’ first two picks in the 2023 draft for Fields, you absolutely have to make that trade. Spend the newfound capital on building up the line and then draft Caleb Williams in 2024 after another tank year in 2023. This is the way. Doubt Poles has the guts or foresight to do it though.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If you can get the Jets’ first two picks in the 2023 draft for Fields, you absolutely have to make that trade. Spend the newfound capital on building up the line and then draft Caleb Williams in 2024 after another tank year in 2023. This is the way. Doubt Poles has the guts or foresight to do it though.

There is zero guarantee that, even with Fields gone, the Bears would be set up to get Williams. Whatever team gets the #1 pick next year is almost certainly going to grab him. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There is zero guarantee that, even with Fields gone, the Bears would be set up to get Williams. Whatever team gets the #1 pick next year is almost certainly going to grab him. 

You don’t think starting Nathan Peterman at QB for a full season makes the Bears a lock for the top pick?

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

You don’t think starting Nathan Peterman at QB for a full season makes the Bears a lock for the top pick?

The same sort of chatter has happened on Houston sports radio about goign with Lovie and Davis Mills for another year to try to fill in the rest of the roster if they don't get the #1 pick this year. Between the fact that the players can't throw games since they're playing for contracts and the fact that Peterman won't be the only QB on the roster, they'd still win a couple of games and it would be a tossup. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The same sort of chatter has happened on Houston sports radio about goign with Lovie and Davis Mills for another year to try to fill in the rest of the roster if they don't get the #1 pick this year. Between the fact that the players can't throw games since they're playing for contracts and the fact that Peterman won't be the only QB on the roster, they'd still win a couple of games and it would be a tossup. 

Only winning a couple games is a recipe for the first overall pick.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Only winning a couple games is a recipe for the first overall pick.

4-13 is going to get a couple of very bad teams top 5 picks. 

Let’s also not forget that the Bears will be adding what, 8-9 drafted players this year, and spending $50 million in free agency just to get tO the salary floor? They could still be bad next year without a QB, but one or two guys step up and your QB less team is drafting 6th while the raiders brought in Garoppolo, he got hurt in game 3, and they went 2-15.

[Chisoxfn]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

4-13 is going to get a couple of very bad teams top 5 picks. 

Let’s also not forget that the Bears will be adding what, 8-9 drafted players this year, and spending $50 million in free agency just to get tO the salary floor? They could still be bad next year without a QB, but one or two guys step up and your QB less team is drafting 6th while the raiders brought in Garoppolo, he got hurt in game 3, and they went 2-15.

Yeah - if you like a qb early you have to take them (not speaking for the bears any franchise). You can’t punt on an opportunity because what is available next year because you have no earthly idea whether you will have that shot. Only one team will get Caleb Williams (if you think he is that guy). Sure maybe the Bears can tank and get it but nfl is parody and the difference between #1 pick and #10 is not that much. 

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Yeah - if you like a qb early you have to take them (not speaking for the bears any franchise). You can’t punt on an opportunity because what is available next year because you have no earthly idea whether you will have that shot. Only one team will get Caleb Williams (if you think he is that guy). Sure maybe the Bears can tank and get it but nfl is parody and the difference between #1 pick and #10 is not that much. 

Or Caleb Williams trashes his leg in a bowl game and is out for the whole next season.

Or Rodgers leaves the Packers and now you play extra hard to win your rivalry game against a bad Green Bay team.

Theres just too many ways with too high a likelihood that this strategy goes bust.

If you don’t like Fields for whatever reason, it’s Stroud or Young. That is a risky move but it’s one that at least could work.

[Chisoxfn]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Or Caleb Williams trashes his leg in a bowl game and is out for the whole next season.

Or Rodgers leaves the Packers and now you play extra hard to win your rivalry game against a bad Green Bay team.

Theres just too many ways with too high a likelihood that this strategy goes bust.

If you don’t like Fields for whatever reason, it’s Stroud or Young. That is a risky move but it’s one that at least could work.

Completely agree - I have no preference. Am good with either route and understand both approaches. 

[Harry Chappas]

2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Completely agree - I have no preference. Am good with either route and understand both approaches. 

Whatever gets the most capital trading pick or trading Fields is the move.  Thinking either draft QB will be an upgrade on Fields is not the right play nor is tanking for Caleb Williams