History repeats itself...

[Lip Man 1]

Got an e-mail from a friend who reminded me that exactly 32 years ago August 25, 1990 was the "Lee Stevens Game," the game that many fans feel broke the back of the overachieving 1990 White Sox. He brought it up because he feels that Engel's error last night was the final nail in the Sox 2022 coffin....on the same day of the calendar. 

For those who don't remember the Sox started the night five game back, had beaten California the night before and had a 2-0 lead in the 9th inning with two out when Bobby Thigpen faced left handed hitting Lee Stevens with two on.

Thigpen had gotten fastballs by him but someone (Fisk? Thigpen?) called for a change up and Stevens hit it over the center field fence. Sox lost 3-2 and promptly lost five in a row.

Jeff Torborg has told me a lot about that night, he was pissed because like he said Stevens couldn't hit a good fastball. He was going to get all over Fisk when he got back to the dugout but saw Carlton was taking his catchers mask and repeatedly hitting himself in the head with it as he was walking back to the dugout when the inning ended. Jeff said that he knew Fisk was pissed and didn't think any good would come out of ripping him, he knew there was a major screw up.

Torborg was so pissed driving home he was caught speeding and explained why he was distracted. He told me the cop didn't believe it, he said the cop said, "You guys didn't win?" and just walked away he was so stunned. No ticket was given out.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Lip Man 1

[flavum]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StKKlzMfT0s
 

About 5 min in

[wegner]

17 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Got an e-mail from a friend who reminded me that exactly 32 years ago August 25, 1990 was the "Lee Stevens Game," the game that many fans feel broke the back of the overachieving 1990 White Sox. He brought it up because he feels that Engel's error last night was the final nail in the Sox 2022 coffin....on the same day of the calendar. 

For those who don't remember the Sox started the night five game back, had beaten California the night before and had a 2-0 lead in the 9th inning with two out when Bobby Thigpen faced left handed hitting Lee Stevens with two on.

Thigpen had gotten fastballs by him but someone (Fisk? Thigpen?) called for a change up and Stevens hit it over the center field fence. Sox lost 3-2 and promptly lost five in a row.

Jeff Torborg has told me a lot about that night, he was pissed because like he said Stevens couldn't hit a good fastball. He was going to get all over Fisk when he got back to the dugout but saw Carlton was taking his catchers mask and repeatedly hitting himself in the head with it as he was walking back to the dugout when the inning ended. Jeff said that he knew Fisk was pissed and didn't think any good would come out of ripping him, he knew there was a major screw up.

Torborg was so pissed driving home he was caught speeding and explained why he was distracted. He told me the cop didn't believe it, he said the cop said, "You guys didn't win?" and just walked away he was so stunned. No ticket was given out.

 

Sounds a bit like last night that is for sure.  I do not know who wanted to go away from the fastball last night but boy was that a bad idea.  I get that the game will be remembered more for the Engel miscue but damnit that was a bad pitch there.

[Lip Man 1]

19 minutes ago, wegner said:

Sounds a bit like last night that is for sure.  I do not know who wanted to go away from the fastball last night but boy was that a bad idea.  I get that the game will be remembered more for the Engel miscue but damnit that was a bad pitch there.

I pitched and I can tell you there are two "philosophies" for wont of a better word when it comes to this. I don't think their is a right answer per se.

One side says, "Guy can't hit a fastball you keep throwing him nothing but fastballs until he shows you he can hit it."

Other side of the coin says, "Wait a minute if you just keep throwing the guy fastballs at some point he WILL hit it and possibly beat you...you've got to keep him off balance and throw different pitches."

[wegner]

1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I pitched and I can tell you there are two "philosophies" for wont of a better word when it comes to this. I don't think their is a right answer per se.

One side says, "Guy can't hit a fastball you keep throwing him nothing but fastballs until he shows you he can hit it."

Other side of the coin says, "Wait a minute if you just keep throwing the guy fastballs at some point he WILL hit it and possibly beat you...you've got to keep him off balance and throw different pitches."

So that pitch was just a location issue I guess, which happens.  Another one in the dirt like he was throwing earlier in the inning might have done the trick.  But he sure didn't look like that guy was catching up to the fastball last night.  Oh well.

[reiks12]

54 minutes ago, flavum said:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StKKlzMfT0s
 

About 5 min in

Crazy to me how outdated 1990 looks (edit: yes it was 32 years ago but still, that was clear as day back then)

Edited August 26, 2022 by reiks12

[southsider2k5]

This is more like 2006 than 1990.  No one expected the 1990 team to do anything.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is more like 2006 than 1990.  No one expected the 1990 team to do anything.

That's true, I don't think the Sox were picked to finish higher than fifth or sixth in the West that year but they had a hungry group of talented kids who started off well and the ball kept rolling. 

[HOFHurt35]

I can't compare this team to what was a 94 win ball club in 1990.

This team flat out sucks, and Engel's drop last night is exactly what teams that suck do. 

[Snopek]

I was at that game as a 10 year old. I will forever remember Lee Stevens, an otherwise pretty forgettable player, because of that.

[Lip Man 1]

38 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I can't compare this team to what was a 94 win ball club in 1990.

This team flat out sucks, and Engel's drop last night is exactly what teams that suck do. 

My friend was comparing the fact that in both of the seasons on the same calendar date a back breaking event occurred which fans feel basically ended the season. The Stevens home run in 1990 and perhaps Engel's drop last night.

[Timmy U]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

That's true, I don't think the Sox were picked to finish higher than fifth or sixth in the West that year but they had a hungry group of talented kids who started off well and the ball kept rolling. 

That '90 team is probably my favorite Sox team of all time.  Black Jack McDowell had his first dominant year. We saw the rookie year of Robin Ventura.  I went to the doubleheader in Milwaukee in which both Big Frank and Alex Fernandez made their major league debuts. Super fun season.  And who was the a-hole who disrespected that team publicly? TLR. Screw that guy.

[joejoesox]

I feel like there's definitely something going on in the clubhouse and I wish someone who knew exactly what it was could just make a new anonymous account on here and spill the beans 😂

assuming it's something other than TLR 

[Lip Man 1]

19 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

That '90 team is probably my favorite Sox team of all time.  Black Jack McDowell had his first dominant year. We saw the rookie year of Robin Ventura.  I went to the doubleheader in Milwaukee in which both Big Frank and Alex Fernandez made their major league debuts. Super fun season.  And who was the a-hole who disrespected that team publicly? TLR. Screw that guy.

Actually it was pitcher Dave Stewart of the A's. In June after the Sox beat him and swept the A's in a weekend series in Oakland he said (don't have the exact quote) 'They have only a few players Calderon, Kittle, Fisk...the rest can't hold my jock.' 

This is from my interview with Donn Pall:

DP: "We thought it was pretty funny. The guys didn’t take it personally and we didn’t draw a lot of inspiration from it. I do remember the fans reaction to it though; they had that big jockstrap in the bleachers and then threw a bunch of jocks on the field the next time Dave pitched.”

[Timmy U]

Yes, but LaRussa was super supportive of his buddy Stewart.

[hankchifan]

6 hours ago, wegner said:

Sounds a bit like last night that is for sure.  I do not know who wanted to go away from the fastball last night but boy was that a bad idea.  I get that the game will be remembered more for the Engel miscue but damnit that was a bad pitch there.

The sad part was that it was a 0-2 pitch to a rookie batting below the Mendoza line. With no one on base. Hendriks had 4 chances to strike him out and threw him a hittable cookie strike.  Bury a slider in the dirt or blow him out with heat just out of the zone.  I don’t know who called for the breaking pitch but it was a bad blunder. Hendriks does not hang fastballs, but does hang curves and sliders.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, hankchifan said:

The sad part was that it was a 0-2 pitch to a rookie batting below the Mendoza line. With no one on base. Hendriks had 4 chances to strike him out and threw him a hittable cookie strike.  Bury a slider in the dirt or blow him out with heat just out of the zone.  I don’t know who called for the breaking pitch but it was a bad blunder. Hendriks does not hang fastballs, but does hang curves and sliders.

He's given up more home runs this year than I think the last two or three years combined.

[JoshPR]

14 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

I feel like there's definitely something going on in the clubhouse and I wish someone who knew exactly what it was could just make a new anonymous account on here and spill the beans 😂

assuming it's something other than TLR 

I so agree with this. It's obvious the players are in protest for something. Something happened around mid point last year that put this in motion..

[soxfaninfl]

23 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

I so agree with this. It's obvious the players are in protest for something. Something happened around mid point last year that put this in motion..

It’s pressure. It’s tougher to stay on top than actually getting there. I haven’t liked the mood since they lost the playoff series last year but I did think the team was fine until then.

Of course, the lockout didn’t help but I can’t shake the feeling this team was never really ready to defend their Central title. Abreu’s preseason comments really concerned me and still do.

[JoshPR]

5 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

It’s pressure. It’s tougher to stay on top than actually getting there. I haven’t liked the mood since they lost the playoff series last year but I did think the team was fine until then.

Of course, the lockout didn’t help but I can’t shake the feeling this team was never really ready to defend their Central title. Abreu’s preseason comments really concerned me and still do.

Might be. But it's the lack of spirit and energy. The rumblings of the clubhouse.. 

[soxfaninfl]

Just now, JoshPR said:

Might be. But it's the lack of spirit and energy. The rumblings of the clubhouse.. 

Happens to all teams that are not playing up to expectations.

it’s almost like they treated the regular season as a dress rehearsal. Well, other teams are hungry too and obviously hungrier than this one.

is it the players, the manager, the front office? Injuries have not helped and I think Eloy and Abreu have maybe two good legs between them but a change in manager is needed. Signing a player that actually has a winning attitude would help too. Nothing was done and this team’s nucleus is still too young to deal with the expectations thrown at it all offseason. 
 

Add in a bad start and voila…