2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[LittleHurtCG]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don't think Flus is a terrible manager as the head coach and I do think he is a good defensive coordinator. That clearly hasn't shown up here and a huge part of that is the Dline stinks.  On the offensive side - I don't know if Getsy is good or bad....he clearly didn't design and entirely build a unique offense around Fields - instead took an offense he liked and tried to blend the edges around Fields.

The problem is - Fields might be fine on those edge concepts, but there are only so many that you can run and that limits what you can do and Fields in anything more traditional is legitemently the worse QB in the NFL (yes - I think playing within standard plays - even Zach Wilson might be better - but not by a lot).  And so I stand by my premise - if the Bears think you need to at least run a modern NFL offense to win in the long run - than YOU WILL NEVER go anywhere with Fields. In fact, you will be an adjunct disaster putting Fields in that system - which is exactly what we have witnessed going on the past 3 years (with literally ZERO improvement in this department).  

People should go see some of what Lombardi is saying - really coming to defense of Getsy and others and basically stating - if you were an OC, what could you call for Fields and stating that he literally can't make even the most basic of plays.  The only highlights you will have is him doing something ridiculous running the football and/or the ocassional dime while everythign hits the fan.  That is great - but if you can't do anything worth a damn the other 90% of the time - than you suck.  Getting 200% on 10% of the plays while you get a 50% on the other 90% is an F.  That is what Justin Fields is as a QB and the entire team is being made worse by having him on the field. Most notably the oline and skill position players. 

Nobody in the Bears organization could evaluate Justin Fields properly? Why the hell was this kid brought back for this year? 3 games in to the year and it is already time to bail on Fields? 

[nitetrain8601]

2 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

So it's looking more and more like the play was to sell high on Fields last offseason. CJ Stroud is looking legit. Bears could have just taken him #1 and gotten some additional draft capital by moving Fields. 

Now we have to sit through another tank job in order to get another #1 pick. Unreal. 

That's using quite a bit of hindsight. CJ Stroud was no better than Fields as a prospect. CJ Stroud also came into a worst QB class. Next year's QB crop is considered much stronger by many with two QBs who many believe would go #1 any other draft. 

Also, if you traded Fields and he was good, you would've been killed by the media. Lastly, it's been 3 games. You saw Fields have 8 pretty darn good games last year. Anyone could put together a string of decent games. It's a matter of, can you win with them and is their success sustainable?

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don't think Flus is a terrible manager as the head coach and I do think he is a good defensive coordinator. That clearly hasn't shown up here and a huge part of that is the Dline stinks.  On the offensive side - I don't know if Getsy is good or bad....he clearly didn't design and entirely build a unique offense around Fields - instead took an offense he liked and tried to blend the edges around Fields.

The problem is - Fields might be fine on those edge concepts, but there are only so many that you can run and that limits what you can do and Fields in anything more traditional is legitemently the worse QB in the NFL (yes - I think playing within standard plays - even Zach Wilson might be better - but not by a lot).  And so I stand by my premise - if the Bears think you need to at least run a modern NFL offense to win in the long run - than YOU WILL NEVER go anywhere with Fields. In fact, you will be an adjunct disaster putting Fields in that system - which is exactly what we have witnessed going on the past 3 years (with literally ZERO improvement in this department).  

People should go see some of what Lombardi is saying - really coming to defense of Getsy and others and basically stating - if you were an OC, what could you call for Fields and stating that he literally can't make even the most basic of plays.  The only highlights you will have is him doing something ridiculous running the football and/or the ocassional dime while everythign hits the fan.  That is great - but if you can't do anything worth a damn the other 90% of the time - than you suck.  Getting 200% on 10% of the plays while you get a 50% on the other 90% is an F.  That is what Justin Fields is as a QB and the entire team is being made worse by having him on the field. Most notably the oline and skill position players. 

I would like to know what you see that makes you think he is a good DC.  

[Chisoxfn]

51 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Poles thought this roster could compete for a division crown. If he really believed that, he has to fire the flus. If they go one to have a top 2 or 3 pick in the draft that didn't come from Carolina, the Bears have to fire Poles. No progress is unacceptable.

The question is - did Poles actually believe that behind closed doors, or did he know his limitations.  I recognize I got hyped up in the off-season, but once I saw the preseason lineups, I literally looked and took a step back and was telling all my friends - this is not going to be good. The dline is awful (signing Ngakakoue was not going to change anything - although it was the right move to make cause they need any help they could get...and if they are lucky, they can maybe trade him at the deadline if he actually is producing for like a 6th rounder).  The secondary is young and your LB corps, while they made investments, is going to have a hard time making plays when your dline is this bad.  

Offensively - I think Poles said it but didn't say it with Fields.  I don't think he had the ability to make any choice other than giving Fields one more year (given the draft capital that previous regimes invested and the flash plays that he showed - to see if a 2nd year in the system could bring out the best in him...but we all said - for Fields to be good, he had to take pretty significant steps forward as a passer - it is now clear that the sample size says he is the same guy he was as a rookie, maybe worse and by the way - it is the same thing that he put on college tape - where he never got better in this area).  

But I think Poles reacted in the off-season as someone who was measured and wasn't ALL in on Fields.  Now he didn't throw Fields under the bus either - but that was absolutely the right thing to do.  Now if by the end of the year - none of Poles draft picks look like they are worth a darn, than I suppose Warren and McCaskey need to ask themselves the question of whether Poles is gone too - but I'm hoping we will see enough flashes from young DB's and the oline looks solid enough that we aren't talking about that...cause that would really be a bad thing (albeit at least you'd have a pretty attractive gig if you wanted to hire someone - given you'd be talking about multiple high draft picks and tons of cap space).  

[LittleHurtCG]

1 minute ago, nitetrain8601 said:

That's using quite a bit of hindsight. CJ Stroud was no better than Fields as a prospect. CJ Stroud also came into a worst QB class. Next year's QB crop is considered much stronger by many with two QBs who many believe would go #1 any other draft. 

Also, if you traded Fields and he was good, you would've been killed by the media. Lastly, it's been 3 games. You saw Fields have 8 pretty darn good games last year. Anyone could put together a string of decent games. It's a matter of, can you win with them and is their success sustainable?

Being scared of the media because you made a trade is not how successful organizations are run. So is the scouting and projecting of college quarterbacks a complete and total crapshoot? CJ Stroud may not have been a better prospect than Fields but he is already the better NFL quarterback. Aren't people paid big bucks to scout, evaluate, and project these kids? Seems like the Bears have no idea what they are doing. Very similiar to the Sox unfortuntely. 

[Chisoxfn]

42 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I disagree that this should have to happen.  If the first year of his position was under the agreement with owners that he was blowing it all up and starting from ground zero, he should not be getting fired at the end of season 2 unless something significant happened under him that he ignored (like if we found out he knew about whatever Williams resigned over)

the leash becomes a hell of a lot tighter though, this staff has to be cleaned out and next season if we are seeing the same clown show he has to go

I agree with you and I also don't believe Poles was ever all in on Fields.  I just don't think he was all in on Bryce Love and he wasn't ready to rip the bandaid now and bring in another QB, I think he recognized the type of individual Fields was and that it was worth investing in him for one more year and building assets for the following year (and ideally positioning the roster so that it was in a healthier spot for the next QB - if Fields wasn't the guy (and he clearly isn't).  

Now I would state that if all of his draft picks look like garbage, than I think McCaskey and Warren would have a hard choice to make. But barring that (and god I hope that won't be the case) - than I am pretty committed to giving Poles the opportunity to go forward. I really don't see how you could do something different - unless they are planning to go give a blank check to Harbaugh.  

[Chisoxfn]

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I would like to know what you see that makes you think he is a good DC.  

I'm going off his time with the Colts - they had good defenses and developed players there.  That in no means is stating anything he has done with the Bears - but I also think last year he had absolute trash to work with and this year, the trash is a bit better, but not a lot. Now the hope is - the young players and LB's gel and improve, but when you have a Dline this bad - your D is going to struggle to get off the field.  

[LittleHurtCG]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I agree with you and I also don't believe Poles was ever all in on Fields.  I just don't think he was all in on Bryce Love and he wasn't ready to rip the bandaid now and bring in another QB, I think he recognized the type of individual Fields was and that it was worth investing in him for one more year and building assets for the following year (and ideally positioning the roster so that it was in a healthier spot for the next QB - if Fields wasn't the guy (and he clearly isn't).  

Now I would state that if all of his draft picks look like garbage, than I think McCaskey and Warren would have a hard choice to make. But barring that (and god I hope that won't be the case) - than I am pretty committed to giving Poles the opportunity to go forward. I really don't see how you could do something different - unless they are planning to go give a blank check to Harbaugh.  

None of this looks good for Ryan Poles. I'm not convinced at all that him and his scouts have any clue on how to properly evaluate and scout talent. They didn't know what they had in Fields going into year 3 and we are supposed to trust that they can properly evaluate a top QB for 2024? Color me skeptical here. 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'm going off his time with the Colts - they had good defenses and developed players there.  That in no means is stating anything he has done with the Bears - but I also think last year he had absolute trash to work with and this year, the trash is a bit better, but not a lot. Now the hope is - the young players and LB's gel and improve, but when you have a Dline this bad - your D is going to struggle to get off the field.  

I just think actual good coaches still bend this better.

Everyone thought the cards would be trash and trying  to lose. They had a terrible defense last year. They hired a d coordinator as head coach and he's had them playing incredibly hard against a difficult schedule.

Everyone thought the dolphins were trying to tank. Brian Flores scrapes every possible bit of talent into a team that wins more games than flus could dream of.

It's a huge red flag that he can't scrape together a competitive defense. Especially since a lot of these guys on d look hand picked for him, including these massive d ends that can't rush the passer, but also haven't shut down the run for us.

[WilliamTell]

17 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Matt Nagy made the Bears look silly today.

If Andy Reid retires in the next few years, Nagy will become the head coach. I know you Bears fans aren't very high on Nagy, but clearly there were more problems than just him in that organization.

[Kyyle23]

10 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'm going off his time with the Colts - they had good defenses and developed players there.  That in no means is stating anything he has done with the Bears - but I also think last year he had absolute trash to work with and this year, the trash is a bit better, but not a lot. Now the hope is - the young players and LB's gel and improve, but when you have a Dline this bad - your D is going to struggle to get off the field.  

He had some good defensive players in Indy, especially Buckner anchoring that line.  
 

it’s hard for me to see the good right now, we have always been told that the good coaches can turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad, and we really haven’t seen any actual improvement over the unit that is his specialty, and the team is sitting 32nd in most categories.  

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, WilliamTell said:

If Andy Reid retires in the next few years, Nagy will become the head coach. I know you Bears fans aren't very high on Nagy, but clearly there were more problems than just him in that organization.

I will be surprised if Nagy gets another shot at HC, and I will actually be very surprised if he is even the OC after this season.  KC does not win games because of Nagy, he still does a lot of dumb s%*# he just has the ultimate eraser at QB right now 

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

He had some good defensive players in Indy, especially Buckner anchoring that line.  
 

it’s hard for me to see the good right now, we have always been told that the good coaches can turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad, and we really haven’t seen any actual improvement over the unit that is his specialty, and the team is sitting 32nd in most categories.  

If we get to the halfway point of the season and the defense is still bottom 3rd - than yeah. I would be shocked the defense would be in the top 3rd, but they should be in the middle 3rd. If they don't get there, terrible indictment.  But his defenses were good / very good in Indy and he was working for an offensive HC, so he was in charge of them and they developed a lot of players under his watch.  

Now as a HC - he clearly isn't good.  Effort doesn't work. They are awful and he doesn't bring any unique skill to the table. It isn't like he's a brilliant offensive mind or a brilliant defensive tactician.  

[Tony]

36 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

So it's looking more and more like the play was to sell high on Fields last offseason. CJ Stroud is looking legit. Bears could have just taken him #1 and gotten some additional draft capital by moving Fields. 

Now we have to sit through another tank job in order to get another #1 pick. Unreal. 

 

32 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Nobody in the Bears organization could evaluate Justin Fields properly? Why the hell was this kid brought back for this year? 3 games in to the year and it is already time to bail on Fields? 

 

26 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Being scared of the media because you made a trade is not how successful organizations are run. So is the scouting and projecting of college quarterbacks a complete and total crapshoot? CJ Stroud may not have been a better prospect than Fields but he is already the better NFL quarterback. Aren't people paid big bucks to scout, evaluate, and project these kids? Seems like the Bears have no idea what they are doing. Very similiar to the Sox unfortuntely. 

Can't really have it both ways. 

If the Bears were wrong on Fields and the rest of the league is smarter...than what are you going to get for Fields on the trade market? 

Additionally, as others have said, I don't think the Bears went all in on Fields at all. It makes their job WAY easier if Fields ended up being "the guy" But you hedge by getting that extra Carolina first to have enough capital to do something to put yourself in a position to draft a QB if Fields ended up laying an egg. You use last years first on Stroud, you don't get much back for Fields, there is the chance Fields hits and Stroud doesn't, and now you look bad, and they also were able to acquire DJ Moore, who is still a very good WR in any other offense. 

[bmags]

Anxious to see what coaches rise to the top.

Ben Johnson OC Det (play caller)

Frank Smith OC Miami (former bears TE coach)

Shane Waldron OC Seattle (play caller, McVay tree)

Bobby Slowik Houston OC (Shanahan tree)

Dave Canales Tampa Bay OC

Drew Petzing Arizona Cardinals OC

Ken Dorsey Buffalo Bills OC

Todd Monken Baltimore Ravens OC

Lincoln Riley USC HC

Eric Bienemy OC Wash

 

[nitetrain8601]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Being scared of the media because you made a trade is not how successful organizations are run. So is the scouting and projecting of college quarterbacks a complete and total crapshoot? CJ Stroud may not have been a better prospect than Fields but he is already the better NFL quarterback. Aren't people paid big bucks to scout, evaluate, and project these kids? Seems like the Bears have no idea what they are doing. Very similiar to the Sox unfortunately. 

The media speaks for the fans 9/10 times. If CJ Stroud is not considered a better prospect than the guy you have in house who should be further along in his development, why would you trade the guy in house and waste a pick on a QB when you have other pressing needs?

You wouldn't unless you have a time machine and realize what has played out. And again, Stroud looks decent in his three games. 3 games doesn't make a career. Stop using hindsight.

[nitetrain8601]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

None of this looks good for Ryan Poles. I'm not convinced at all that him and his scouts have any clue on how to properly evaluate and scout talent. They didn't know what they had in Fields going into year 3 and we are supposed to trust that they can properly evaluate a top QB for 2024? Color me skeptical here. 

Um, almost no FO evaluates their drafted QB until after year 3. They essentially had one year with him and saw things they liked, but also things they didn't like. They gave themselves another full year to evaluate him and an easy out if he doesn't pan out. They've done as good as a job of anyone ensuring they didn't mess up the QB room long term. 

 

Sounds like you expected the rebuild to only last one year. 

[Snopek]

16 hours ago, Tony said:

I do not understand from a simple PR perspective how these coaches think they are being effective taking the route they do postgame. Just listend to Flus meet the media. "We gotta keep working. There are some good things here. We gotta keep sticking to the system, keep hammering it, things will break for us." 

Why should we think your system is right? You're 3-17 as a Head Coach. No one is getting better. You just got destroyed. Keeping sticking to it? Sticking to WHAT? 

Just unreal. 

How many Pedro Grifols does one city deserve?

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Snopek said:

How many Pedro Grifols does one city deserve?

Buddy we have sat through the Trestman and Boylen catastrophes, there is always room for more

[Snopek]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Buddy we have sat through the Trestman and Boylen catastrophes, there is always room for more

Touché. I simply ask that we keep it to one at a time please.

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Um, almost no FO evaluates their drafted QB until after year 3. They essentially had one year with him and saw things they liked, but also things they didn't like. They gave themselves another full year to evaluate him and an easy out if he doesn't pan out. They've done as good as a job of anyone ensuring they didn't mess up the QB room long term. 

 

Sounds like you expected the rebuild to only last one year. 

So did the GM

 

“(We’re) excited, really excited,” Poles said. “You can see the difference from year one to year two. Guys are starting to understand concepts and schemes and are playing faster. Young guys know what they’re supposed to be doing.”

“And then the additions that we’ve made? You can see those guys making plays on a daily basis, both on the offensive side and defensive side,” said Poles.

 

One problem is, it's a lot easier to make plays against the Bears defense and the Bears offense than other teams. And that is what he was looking at. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Dick Allen

[nitetrain8601]

21 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So did the GM

 

“(We’re) excited, really excited,” Poles said. “You can see the difference from year one to year two. Guys are starting to understand concepts and schemes and are playing faster. Young guys know what they’re supposed to be doing.”

“And then the additions that we’ve made? You can see those guys making plays on a daily basis, both on the offensive side and defensive side,” said Poles.

 

One problem is, it's a lot easier to make plays against the Bears defense and the Bears offense than other teams. And that is what he was looking at. 

Where does he say that the rebuild is complete or anything remotely close to that? I don't see it. He's speaking generic "We're looking to be better talk" which every GM has to do. No GM ever comes out and says "Yeah guys, this is Year 2 of us sucking, but by Year 4, we'll be good, so catch us then." Even last year, the Bears, despite doing so, would not admit to tanking. 

 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Where does he say that the rebuild is complete or anything remotely close to that? I don't see it. He's speaking generic "We're looking to be better talk" which every GM has to do. No GM ever comes out and says "Yeah guys, this is Year 2 of us sucking, but by Year 4, we'll be good, so catch us then." Even last year, the Bears, despite doing so, would not admit to tanking. 

 

“It’s a fun time,” said Poles. “We’re getting better, we’re taking that next step which, obviously, should be to more wins.

 

He told The Athletic he expected the Bears to win the North. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

41 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So did the GM

 

“(We’re) excited, really excited,” Poles said. “You can see the difference from year one to year two. Guys are starting to understand concepts and schemes and are playing faster. Young guys know what they’re supposed to be doing.”

“And then the additions that we’ve made? You can see those guys making plays on a daily basis, both on the offensive side and defensive side,” said Poles.

 

One problem is, it's a lot easier to make plays against the Bears defense and the Bears offense than other teams. And that is what he was looking at. 

I really think if you read between the lines, he was always a bit more cautious. With that said - you can't go out there and state we are going to stink, etc, but he also had talked multiple times where they knew how many holes they had and that the reality was there was no way they could really fix it in one offseason and the reality is - this was really the first off-season where they had resources.  

His first actual year on the job - the cap situation was a disaster and they had zero draft capital due to the Fields session, so year one was almost like year 0 given how bad it is, so this is actually year 1.  I truly believe the offensive side of the roster is materially upgraded, however, the QB is so bad you can't see it.  This is why I legitimately wonder what they do because with a QB this bad (and with no real hope) - continuing to put him out there puts a serious limitation on your ability to evaluate others, whether coaches and/or skill position players (kind of key given that Mooney / Claypool are due for extension(s)).  

I'm guessing at this point - neither of them may get extensions, which than means, do you trade them and if you do, is there any value for them?  The Bears also don't have any legitimate option to turn to at QB (other than throwing a DII player to the wolves and hoping he shocks us).  

[Chisoxfn]

With all that being said - I do not think Poles (nor anyone else in the building), expected Fields to be this downright bad. I think they all expected improvement and the only question was whether they would see enough improvement to make him your franchise QB or not.  

I think in zero scenario did any of them seeing Fields being as bad of a passer this year (if not worse) than he was last year.  The reality is, through 3 games - he has been as bad, if not worse, and that is despite having better wideouts than last year and being in the 2nd year of the system.