Vaughn is not the problem here.  He will get better, and when he is a free agent, he will really get better.

23 hours ago, oldsox said:

Vaughn is not the problem here.  He will get better, and when he is a free agent, he will really get better.

Vaughn is part of the problem - namely, not enough HR from the corner outfield/infield and DH spots. Andrew needs to hit 25-30 HR to be part of the core moving forward because he is a .250 hitter with sub-standard defense and no speed on the bases. Burger might make more sense at 1B  to insert more power in the line-up.

On 5/11/2023 at 9:18 PM, Greg Hibbard said:

I don’t even know. I really like Vaughn, and he literally just turned 25. But I wonder if he has enough power in his bat to be enough at that position- where you absolutely have to have power. We don’t need 25 home runs and 30 doubles and 40 walks and a .250 average. We need at .270/.870 hitter who is going to hit 35-40 bombs reliably. Can he become that guy? I want him to. 

I was hoping for a break out year from Vaughn this year. There's still hope for that but he's got to boost his batting average by getting more hits which in turn will boost his slugging, OBP, OPS, WAR, wOBA wRC+, etc..

He's probably the best hitter this year with RISP by far so that's something. Unfortunately when he was needed to do that more it didn't happen against Houston .

 The Sox are facing a ton of RHP. Already Vaughn has over 100 more PA against RHP than LHP which seems like a lot after just 25% of the season. It also seems odd that in 16 games against LHP he is only averaging 2 PA per game . That tells me that any LH starting pitchers aren't lasting very long in the games and some of those PA come against LH relief pitchers but so far ,in that small sample, he isn't producing. Maybe it's bad BABIP luck but I haven't checked his peripherals to check his Hard hit rate against LHP to support my BABIP bad luck theory. His BABIP against LHP is only .217. Against RHP it's .304.

For now he's not a problem but rebuilding around him, no. At least he is one of the few Sox players who doesn't have an extensive injury history.

Building around one player seems more like a basketball thing. Vaughn is our first baseman but add the likes of Robert, Moncada , Jimenez and Anderson plus maybe some of the pitchers and go from there

Edited May 15, 20232 yr by elrockinMT

30 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

Building around one player seems more like a basketball thing. Vaughn is our first baseman but add the likes of Robert, Moncada , Jimenez and Anderson plus maybe some of the pitchers and go from there

Burger is getting closer and closer due to how cheap he is/will be.

The problem is the control window over Anderson is closing, and JR isn't going to give him a $125-150 million contract in his age 31/32 season...and nothing's likely to change that, especially with Montgomery being the top future prospect at the very same position (for now).

 

Of those five players you named, Robert with a mega-deal extension (should he come close to living up to that immense potential) seems to be the only piece you build around.

Assuming you deliberately left out Cease/Kopech or just assume they won't still be here...or were only referring to position players?

Luis Robert is on track to be the first White Sox All Star CF since Chet Lemon in 1979. 44 seasons.

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Luis Robert is on track to be the first White Sox All Star CF since Chet Lemon in 1979. 44 seasons.

Didn't he have a Top Ten MVP possibility in sights back in 2020... then collapsed the last 2-3 weeks and got passed by Seattle's Kyle Lewis for RoY? 

Build around?  No, but there aren't many guys in baseball who you would "build around".  Luis Robert hasn't even yet proven to be a guy to build around.

He's a very solid, core piece who is young, controllable, and knows how to drive in runs.  Could you trade him?  Sure.  Would I trade him?  No.  I don't think he should be traded even in the case of a full rebuild.  He seems like the kind of guy who, just by example, would be a solid vet on a rebuilding team.  

Right now I would just settle to see him have a positive WAR season first. Baby steps.

Luis Robert currently on a pace for 6.6-6.7 fWAR in 2023. 

Vaughn... not so much. 

-1.0 now for his entire career

Edited May 15, 20232 yr by caulfield12

He's another guy whose arrow is pointing straight down. As the last two posts in this thread note, he hasn't even posted a positive WAR season yet.  Another complete bust right now. Just another guy.

Edited May 15, 20232 yr by chitownsportsfan

Andrew Vaughn is the prime example of the White Sox not able to develop at the major league level. 

I hope they give him some help and he figures it out. 

Sox don't seem to value the long ball. I like Andy Vaughn but don't expect a ton of HRs. Crushed doubles.

12 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Luis Robert is on track to be the first White Sox All Star CF since Chet Lemon in 1979. 44 seasons.

At least Sox have one guy who looks like a lock for 35-40 homers per annum if he doesn't get hurt. He'll hit 30 plus this season if no injuries.

On 5/12/2023 at 12:18 AM, Greg Hibbard said:

I don’t even know. I really like Vaughn, and he literally just turned 25. But I wonder if he has enough power in his bat to be enough at that position- where you absolutely have to have power. We don’t need 25 home runs and 30 doubles and 40 walks and a .250 average. We need at .270/.870 hitter who is going to hit 35-40 bombs reliably. Can he become that guy? I want him to. 

 

On 5/12/2023 at 6:49 PM, caulfield12 said:

Which means they might as well just go ahead and trade Vaughn/Kopech... which only leaves Cease and Robert of the core. 

He is too slow, hits too many ground balls, strikes out often and his defense is average at best, so I opine that he is not a critical part of a rebuild.

9 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Sox don't seem to value the long ball. I like Andy Vaughn but don't expect a ton of HRs. Crushed doubles.

The Sox should value home run hitters because GRF is a home run hitters park.

It’s striking that Sheets has basically very similar stats to Vaughn at this point in the season. I get that Sheets is really just a strong side platoon hitter but this speaks more to Andrew’s lack of excellence than Sheets’ potential or ability. 

I think he will be fine. He probably won't be a star but I think he will hit like 270 with 25 Homers in his peak years and probably have a 30 bomb season or 2 two.

He isn't Paul goldschmidt or miggy Cabrera but I think he will be a fine average to above average first Baseman (maybe like 5th to 6th best in the AL or so).

The team does have other issues than vaughn but sure, his start to his career was a bit underwhelming, you don't want your third overall pick to have negative 1 career war one month into his third season.

That being said 2019 was a very bad draft to draft in the top5. If you look at the first round of 2019 it simply looks very bad.

Rutschman is clearly the top guy and he seems to be great but behind that it is just bad.

Second pick Witt still could be great but so far he only has a 96 career wrc+. JJ bleday took till 25 to even establish in the majors (in the worst team in baseball now) although he looks a bit improved this year. Greene so far is OK but nothing special (a bit better than vaughn though). Cj abrams who many sox fans wanted over vaughn looks terrible too, chases a ton, doesn't walk and has an OK ability to contact the ball but no power to drive it.

Some later picks like Manoah, Carroll,  baty,kirby and lodolo look decent but they never were considered top5.

They just "picked" a bad year to draft high.