brijames1957 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 You win with players that put winning above everything. You win with players who absolutely hate losing. You win with players who demand accountability from eachother. This team has very few of those players. It has way too many players who are consistently hurt or don't hustle 100% of the time or who don't do the little things that you need to do to win consistently. This has become a team full of players who have come to accept losing and that is the absolute worst. The only hope of future success is by tearing this thing down again but this time bringing in those type of winning players I mentioned. And in order to do that you need a new GM who has proven experience doing just that. That means letting go of RH now. Chicago is a huge market and there are more than a few very good GM's out there that would love to come and turn this thing around. JR has to open the check book and pay whatever and give total power to the next GM. Most everyone should be made available for trade. I would build around Cease, Kopech, Robert, Burger, and Vaughn. None of them are older than 27. Will any of this happen? Most likely not. But one can dream. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 No question a losers mentality has spread throughout this entire organization. Since the start of the 2007 season they have had five winning years, one .500 season and 10 losing ones (soon to be 11) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: No question a losers mentality has spread throughout this entire organization. Since the start of the 2007 season they have had five winning years, one .500 season and 10 losing ones (soon to be 11) Hard to get rid of loser mentality when it starts at the top. JR is a loser. KW is a loser. RH is most definitely a loser. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 16 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: Hard to get rid of loser mentality when it starts at the top. JR is a loser. KW is a loser. RH is most definitely a loser. Very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kids Can Play Posted June 15, 2023 Share Posted June 15, 2023 3 hours ago, brijames1957 said: You win with players that put winning above everything. You win with players who absolutely hate losing. You win with players who demand accountability from eachother. This team has very few of those players. It has way too many players who are consistently hurt or don't hustle 100% of the time or who don't do the little things that you need to do to win consistently. This has become a team full of players who have come to accept losing and that is the absolute worst. The only hope of future success is by tearing this thing down again but this time bringing in those type of winning players I mentioned. And in order to do that you need a new GM who has proven experience doing just that. That means letting go of RH now. Chicago is a huge market and there are more than a few very good GM's out there that would love to come and turn this thing around. JR has to open the check book and pay whatever and give total power to the next GM. Most everyone should be made available for trade. I would build around Cease, Kopech, Robert, Burger, and Vaughn. None of them are older than 27. Will any of this happen? Most likely not. But one can dream. Great post and one of the best this year!! This is exactly the problem in the Sox organization and what we all hope will change someday with a new owner and front office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Sounds sort of naive or juvenile. The last team I heard mention culture change tried to cancel the Bud Billiken parade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 The biggest question is whether you can move on with Robert, Cease and Kopech as the heart of the team...and how much that even makes sense with latter two getting closer and closer to FA. It would be one thing if you actually believed that if Robert continues to improve they'll sign him to a massive extension, but that's just not the White Sox style. So what would they be building towards, exactly? 2025 back to competitiveness again? Just one season? That just seems nearly impossible unless someone like Jonathan Cannon going through a meteoric, Daniel Hudson or Brandon McCarthy-esque climb to the major leagues by some point in the 2nd half of 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Hiring Grifol was a huge mistake, the franchise in the last 15 or so years has been infested with a losing culture and we hire a guy from an organization that is worse than the White Sox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: Hiring Grifol was a huge mistake, the franchise in the last 15 or so years has been infested with a losing culture and we hire a guy from an organization that is worse than the White Sox. Actually, the White Sox have a more ingrained losing culture and worse winning percentage under the Hahn era the the Royals. The Royals won a World Series and two American League Pennants. They are terrible now because they are not spending any money ($92M), with no depth and veterans on their last deals, just like the Sox. Pedro is likely not the answer, but it’s not based on what team he came from. And the manager is not, and has not been the primary issue with the White Sox. The owner and front office do a poor job with every aspect of the organization (scouting beyond Paddy, player development, assessing internal and external player potential, drafting, injury management, pre game preparation, in game decision making, analytics, minor league philosophy, Jerry looking to scrimp and save at every turn, including never hiring an experienced professional for key roles unless they are no longer capable BFFs in their mid 70s, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) On 6/15/2023 at 10:55 AM, Lip Man 1 said: No question a losers mentality has spread throughout this entire organization. Since the start of the 2007 season they have had five winning years, one .500 season and 10 losing ones (soon to be 11) Most of their acquisitions often in coaching come habitually losing organizations. We've spun the organizations problems around that there is nothing new under the sun. Edited June 16, 2023 by kitekrazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 4 hours ago, kitekrazy said: Most of their acquisitions often in coaching come habitually losing organizations. We've spun the organizations problems around that there is nothing new under the sun. Hostetler came from the Braves... that didn't help much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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