elrockinMT Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: The batters up in the 10th were Robert (walked), Eloy, Grandal, and Burger. I can’t imagine that any of these guys regularly practice bunting, asking them to do so is just taking the bat out of their hands. Exactly sir! Those guys could potentially possibly maybe win the game with one swing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Just now, elrockinMT said: Exactly sir! Those guys could potentially possibly maybe win the game with one swing One could make the same claim if they executed a successful bunt though couldn't they (i.e. winning the game on "one swing")? Lay down a bunt, the opponent throws it away, kicks it, fumbles it and a run scores. Not saying bunting is the best approach especially with guys who have no idea how to do it, but it's possible to win the game with it just as it is possible to win the game by swinging away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninfl Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dan Pasqua said: You are correct. He wouldn't have needed asking. The crowd would've been chanting JOEY and he would've sacrificed himself. Even if he wouldn't be comfortable in that spot he definitely would've given his best effort. You do realize he has never had a sacrifice bunt in his career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said: One could make the same claim if they executed a successful bunt though couldn't they (i.e. winning the game on "one swing")? Lay down a bunt, the opponent throws it away, kicks it, fumbles it and a run scores. Not saying bunting is the best approach especially with guys who have no idea how to do it, but it's possible to win the game with it just as it is possible to win the game by swinging away. I guess we can agree that anything can happen. In that game Robert was intentionally walked and bunting simply would take the bat out if Eloy’s hands and I have never seen Burger bunt. I would have fallen on Jimenez who is a better hitter for average then Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said: You do realize he has never had a sacrifice bunt in his career Probably because they all ended up hits with his speed Jesus stick to the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninfl Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Just now, Dan Pasqua said: Probably because they all ended up hits with his speed Jesus stick to the point I did. You don’t ask Eloy to bunt. If you want to PH for Eloy to bunt, then fine. But then we would hear from every second guesser when Grandal eventually strikes out anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 minute ago, soxfaninfl said: I did. You don’t ask Eloy to bunt. If you want to PH for Eloy to bunt, then fine. But then we would hear from every second guesser when Grandal eventually strikes out anyway. Exactly if Eloy can't bunt and get somebody up there that can at least it would sacrifice itself for the team. You see you 100% of the time bunt and you were off point by suggesting somebody doesn't bunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG23SoxFan Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said: Well, he could have popped a bunt into a triple play. 😊 Seriously, how many times in a season would anyone ask Eloy or any hitter with his skill set to bunt? You just can’t ask a hitter to do something he does not do or, yeah, a worse catastrophe could happen. That's why I said probably lol. I was thinking more like he bunts it too hard and they get a double play and he hurts his hamstring trying to beat it out lol. No, I wouldn't expect him to bunt but I don't think his skill set is as good as anyone had hoped it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Dan Pasqua said: Exactly if Eloy can't bunt and get somebody up there that can at least it would sacrifice itself for the team. You see you 100% of the time bunt and you were off point by suggesting somebody doesn't bunt if your strategy for winning a baseball game involves taking one of your few decent hitters out of the game in the 10th inning...just stop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninfl Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: if your strategy for winning a baseball game involves taking one of your few decent hitters out of the game in the 10th inning...just stop. You want Eloy to end the game. He didn’t. Romano was better this time. That’s baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: if your strategy for winning a baseball game involves taking one of your few decent hitters out of the game in the 10th inning...just stop. It wasn't a suggestion it's a given in fundamental baseball anybody who has a fundamental mind of baseball would get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Eloy has a 118 wRC+ and a 25% K rate and you got folks here describing him like he's one of the best hitters in baseball. He's currently tied for 60th in wRC+. The chances of a game winning hit were 1/4 at absolute best. We have really low expectations for when a guy is *too good* to bunt apparently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Okay I'm going to soften my stance only in this regard and that if it's a Hall of Fame hitter up there then give him the option to move the runners over by going the other way or getting the base hit against the picture that he feels he can get a hit against Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I hate this team and organization They f*** up a lot of things but having Eloy bunt in bottom of 10th is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Eloy has a 118 wRC+ and a 25% K rate and you got folks here describing him like he's one of the best hitters in baseball. He's currently tied for 60th in wRC+. The chances of a game winning hit were 1/4 at absolute best. We have really low expectations for when a guy is *too good* to bunt apparently. Robert is the only hitter you would never bunt with because he has an elite hitting skill set. Eloy is going to f*** it up even if he was able to bunt as he does most things involving baseball. Grandal (or Vaughn) have a good chance bunting into a double or triple play with their speed. The rest of the team should be able to bunt in these situations including Moncada and Tim. Would say the correct answer if the Sox were actually attempting to field a competitive team would be to have Billy up instead of Perez to fill in for Robert (for rest) and to steal 3rd base in these situations (even PR for Tim). Think it doesn’t matter at this point, just roster and play young prospects once any slim hopes died last week out West. Elvis should just fill in for rest from here on out, Grandal should just catch Lynn at this point if you’re going three catchers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: Robert is the only hitter you would never bunt with because he has an elite hitting skill set. Eloy is going to f*** it up even if he was able to bunt as he does most things involving baseball. Grandal (or Vaughn) have a good chance bunting into a double or triple play with their speed. The rest of the team should be able to bunt in these situations including Moncada and Tim. Would say the correct answer if the Sox were actually attempting to field a competitive team would be to have Billy up instead of Perez to fill in for Robert (for rest) and to steal 3rd base in these situations (even PR for Tim). Think it doesn’t matter at this point, just roster and play young prospects once any slim hopes died last week out West. Elvis should just fill in for rest from here on out, Grandal should just catch Lynn at this point if you’re going three catchers. In the post game presser did they even ask the a****** this question 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 53 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Every single player bunts a few times in the first round of BP. Every day. It takes nothing away from practice time. There is one time when bunting makes sense: needing one run to win in the bottom of an inning with nobody out and runners on 1st and 2nd. It keeps you out of a double play and increases the odds of scoring a run (the only run needed) by about 5%. Takes it from like 65 to 70% I believe. Eloy isn't prime Barry Bonds. Hell, he's not even prime Maglio. Get the damn bunt down, get the guy over to 3rd and win the game. That assumes Eloy has a 100% chance of successfully getting a bunt down. It takes it from 63% to 67% if he succeeds, but drops it to 42.8% if he fails and it leads to 1 out. A 4% increase in chances of winning if he succeeds, a 20% drop in chances of scoring if he fails - that means Eloy has to successfully sacrifice at an 85% clip or better for this to increase their chances of scoring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: Robert is the only hitter you would never bunt with because he has an elite hitting skill set. Eloy is going to f*** it up even if he was able to bunt as he does most things involving baseball. Grandal (or Vaughn) have a good chance bunting into a double or triple play with their speed. The rest of the team should be able to bunt in these situations including Moncada and Tim. Would say the correct answer if the Sox were actually attempting to field a competitive team would be to have Billy up instead of Perez to fill in for Robert (for rest) and to steal 3rd base in these situations (even PR for Tim). Think it doesn’t matter at this point, just roster and play young prospects once any slim hopes died last week out West. Elvis should just fill in for rest from here on out, Grandal should just catch Lynn at this point if you’re going three catchers. Yea, Robert is the only guy in the lineup I'd make an exception for in that spot. The rest of these guys can get a bunt down and increase the odds of winning the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 It's getting harder to distinguish between sincerity and satire around here. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: That assumes Eloy has a 100% chance of successfully getting a bunt down. It takes it from 63% to 67% if he succeeds, but drops it to 42.8% if he fails and it leads to 1 out. A 4% increase in chances of winning if he succeeds, a 20% drop in chances of scoring if he fails - that means Eloy has to successfully sacrifice at an 85% clip or better for this to increase their chances of scoring. That's fair, but I'd still have him bunt. I think there is an 85% he can get one down and I'd have committed to it with two strikes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I really miss guys like Lance Johnson. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 What if, get this, they altered their normal approach and worked to stay behind the ball and hit it to the right side. In this scenario, a little elevation and you get a game winning hit. A ground ball and you still move the runner. But none of our hitters ever have any semblance of adjusting, or trying this, so now you have fans suggesting they just bunt instead. The approach of the entire organization is broken so I won't get on others for suggesting a bunt from our "big boppers" in the tenth. Their multiple failures have brought us here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, Dan Pasqua said: I really miss guys like Lance Johnson. There's def something to be said for fielding a team of good athletes that hit just enough to get to 2-3 WAR over a season, assuming good health. Sometime circa 2012 the Sox seemed to de-emphasize team defense at the expense of offense -- except the offense didn't get consistently better, the defense and other athletic parts of good baseball just got worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfaninfl Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Eloy has a 118 wRC+ and a 25% K rate and you got folks here describing him like he's one of the best hitters in baseball. He's currently tied for 60th in wRC+. The chances of a game winning hit were 1/4 at absolute best. We have really low expectations for when a guy is *too good* to bunt apparently. Okay, Eloy lays down a bunt, a beautiful bunt. Yaz still strikes out. How many of you would be bashing Pedro for bunting Eloy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said: Okay, Eloy lays down a bunt, a beautiful bunt. Yaz still strikes out. How many of you would be bashing Pedro for bunting Eloy? I'd have called for a suicide squeeze! 😇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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