Burger To Marlins

[Snopek]

10 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Burger 3-4 today 8/16 with 2 RBIs.  Rick Hahn strikes out again.  Madrigal homers against the Sox tonight.

If Burger goes 1-12 over his next 3 games, does it swing back to being an okay trade?

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Snopek said:

If Burger goes 1-12 over his next 3 games, does it swing back to being an okay trade?

def, that's how trades work

[Quin]

Since this has become the Jake Burger Update thread, it can go here.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

You can honestly say if they won this game your heart would be content and call this a successful season deserving of 4 more years for Hahn and Grifol?

A little goes a long way with fans. However I haven't seen anything lately that leads me to believe the fans are important to them.

[Buehrle>Wood]

KABOOOOOOM!!!!! 🧨🎇🎆

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I realize Jake's no longer on the Sox but moving this to the Diamond Club almost seems like a deliberate attempt to stifle continued talk of the trade. I'd understand moving it to Diamond talk once interest in discussing the trade lagged and it dropped off the 1st page of Soxtalk. How is the Kenyan Middleton talk about his mother complaining that the Sox didn't allow his children in their daycare rate high enough not to get moved to Diamond Club  ? Is gossip mongering more important than actual baseball talk?  Moving the Burger thread to Diamond talk almost seems as bad as the Sox not putting Middleton's name on the Scoreboard when he returned  in light of returning as a visiting player after he ripped the Sox clubhouse rules.

Just thought I'd mentioned that Burger now has a 2.3 fWAR  and although it's not official yet because WAR can also move down but Burger's 2.3 is higher than Eloy's  best of 1.7 in 2022.

In only 15 games with the Marlins he's put up .9 fWar . How is this possible for a 1B/DH type? I know plenty of that .9 in 15 games is offense but his defensive fWar has also been getting better which accounts for the almost 1 full fWAR increase in 15 games. His wRC+ has also risen from 115 to  121.

His BABIP which I previously noted in discussing the trade and how Burger may improve in the future ,has risen from .225 to .259. His OBP has risen from .279 to .298, his BA from .214 to .234. His slugging has stayed the same at a robust .527. His wOBA has risen from .337 to .347. His current line with the Marlins is .333 , .397 , .526, .923.

 Of course I do realize that we're still talking about small sample sizes here and this is probably the hottest 15 game stretch of his young career. But it does go to show that when the naysayers said the Sox sold high and that Burger's defense made him more of a 1B/DH guy than a 3rd baseman that those things were not necessarily true, at least in the 15 games after the trade.

I hope Jake and the Marlins can continue playing well and I get to see them in the playoffs where hot small sample sizes actually do have relevance.

Edited August 19, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

In his recent hot streak Burger had 3 hits off Verlander and 2 off Gerrit Cole.

Edited August 19, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CentralChamps21]

Speaking of the Marlins, they just had a game rescheduled due to a hurricane.

A road game. In Los Angeles.

[caulfield12]

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/burger-uses-ofallon-summer-league-to-get-on-track-after-achilles-injuries/article_025711e8-e983-5fc0-b106-96f5fa906ef6.html

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

47 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/burger-uses-ofallon-summer-league-to-get-on-track-after-achilles-injuries/article_025711e8-e983-5fc0-b106-96f5fa906ef6.html

That content requires a subscription

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I realize Jake's no longer on the Sox but moving this to the Diamond Club almost seems like a deliberate attempt to stifle continued talk of the trade. I'd understand moving it to Diamond talk once interest in discussing the trade lagged and it dropped off the 1st page of Soxtalk. 

Considering people are providing their thoughts on the trade based on Burger’s batting line in the daily box score, I doubt that would happen anytime soon.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Speaking of the Marlins, they just had a game rescheduled due to a hurricane.

A road game. In Los Angeles.

Global warming and the rise in the temperature of the Pacific Ocean has made the nearly impossible possible. Should be quite chaotic here in So Cal depending on how seriously people take the weather reports and stay off the roads in areas expected to have problems. There is certain to be quite a bit of flooding and mud slides. Just hope no lives are lost.

Edited August 19, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Snopek said:

Considering people are providing their thoughts on the trade based on Burger’s batting line in the daily box score, I doubt that would happen anytime soon.

I think it was the only way to combat how polarizing the trade was. Too many bashing Burger and too many pro Burger people bashing the trade. I fell somewhere in the middle of not bashing the trade but very pro Burger. Even media people like Garfien and his cohort/cohost Ryan McGuffey were sad to see Burger go. I do however reserve the right to bash the trade if Burger ends up having 3 or 4 good seasons while Eder lanquishes in the minors or can't become part of the starting rotation.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

My 2 favorite players of 2023 just went head to head . Burger hit a long fly ball to CF with 2 outs and men on 1st and 2nd  in 1st inning of the 1st game of today's doubleheader with the Dodgers. James Outman tracked it right to the wall and caught it while crashing his back against the wall and falling to the ground.

 If you have the MLB app it's there under MLB Most Popular.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My 2 favorite players of 2023 just went head to head . Burger hit a long fly ball to CF with 2 outs and men on 1st and 2nd  in 1st inning of the 1st game of today's doubleheader with the Dodgers. James Outman tracked it right to the wall and caught it while crashing his back against the wall and falling to the ground.

 If you have the MLB app it's there under MLB Most Popular.

Tough loss with the defense and Robertson collapsing after holding a lead for so long.

That last WC spot will come down to the wire with four teams fighting and now the DBacks suddenly surging with their own young/exciting/talented team.

(Noticed Stone Garrett is playing well recently as well.)

[Buehrle>Wood]

Burger 4 for 7 today. One of the hottest hitters in MLB.

[Quin]

14 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I realize Jake's no longer on the Sox but moving this to the Diamond Club almost seems like a deliberate attempt to stifle continued talk of the trade. I'd understand moving it to Diamond talk once interest in discussing the trade lagged and it dropped off the 1st page of Soxtalk. How is the Kenyan Middleton talk about his mother complaining that the Sox didn't allow his children in their daycare rate high enough not to get moved to Diamond Club  ? Is gossip mongering more important than actual baseball talk?  Moving the Burger thread to Diamond talk almost seems as bad as the Sox not putting Middleton's name on the Scoreboard when he returned  in light of returning as a visiting player after he ripped the Sox clubhouse rules.

lmao I moved it because like you said, Burger's not on the White Sox anymore and as I pointed out, it had become the Jake Burger Update Thread.

As for the bolded, holy s%*#, this is incredible hyperbole. I left a redirect link in Pale Hose and explained why it was moved, so if you think it is such a colossal effort for people to scroll two sections down to talk about Jake Burger, then maybe it was time to move to it to Diamond Talk.

[caulfield12]

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article278218297.html

 

“He's evolving as a player,” said assistant hitting coach Chris Johnson. “He knows his strengths. We call it tunneling, he's trying to work on his tunneling. Really focusing on one side of the plate or the other, or wherever he's attacking that certain day.

 

Maybe we could use Chris Johnson at the big league level since Burger's the only hitter other than Robert to progress the last two seasons?

 

Maybe Hostetler wasn't as bad as claimed?

 

 

"But come on, this? Where Burger, having started the season in Triple A for the third-straight year, is off to the best start of any hitter on the team? Where every fan conversation centers around making sure he’s in the lineup (and ideally, higher than eighth), and the team is preparing offensive centerpiece Eloy Jiménez to play more right field to accommodate him? Who exactly expected this right now? Two hitless games in the past two days have dropped the 27-year-old Burger all the way to .271/.330/.667; a 166 wRC+, or 66 percent more run creation than the league-average hitter. It’s the best wRC+ of any MLB third baseman with over 100 plate appearances.

“To watch what he’s doing on the field, to say that I don’t get emotional and choked up about it is a lie,” said Hostetler, now a special assistant to the general manager focused on pro scouting. “It’s happened multiple times. I’ve been at a game where I’ve had our game on the radio and on my phone I’m listening to it, and he hits a home run and I let out a big yell, and a group of scouts are chuckling at me.”

“Sometimes I sit back and I’m like, ‘Whoa, this is really cool.'” Burger said. “I could write a whole book about how cool it is.  I think that’s why I feel a little more comfortable because of what I went through and how hard that path was. If I can conquer that, then it makes everything a little easier."

https://theathletic.com/4539081/2023/05/23/white-sox-jake-burger-breakout/

Edited August 20, 2023 by caulfield12

[wrathofhahn]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article278218297.html

 

“He's evolving as a player,” said assistant hitting coach Chris Johnson. “He knows his strengths. We call it tunneling, he's trying to work on his tunneling. Really focusing on one side of the plate or the other, or wherever he's attacking that certain day.

 

Maybe we could use Chris Johnson at the big league level since Burger's the only hitter other than Robert to progress the last two seasons?

 

Maybe Hostetler wasn't as bad as claimed?

 

 

"But come on, this? Where Burger, having started the season in Triple A for the third-straight year, is off to the best start of any hitter on the team? Where every fan conversation centers around making sure he’s in the lineup (and ideally, higher than eighth), and the team is preparing offensive centerpiece Eloy Jiménez to play more right field to accommodate him? Who exactly expected this right now? Two hitless games in the past two days have dropped the 27-year-old Burger all the way to .271/.330/.667; a 166 wRC+, or 66 percent more run creation than the league-average hitter. It’s the best wRC+ of any MLB third baseman with over 100 plate appearances.

“To watch what he’s doing on the field, to say that I don’t get emotional and choked up about it is a lie,” said Hostetler, now a special assistant to the general manager focused on pro scouting. “It’s happened multiple times. I’ve been at a game where I’ve had our game on the radio and on my phone I’m listening to it, and he hits a home run and I let out a big yell, and a group of scouts are chuckling at me.”

“Sometimes I sit back and I’m like, ‘Whoa, this is really cool.'” Burger said. “I could write a whole book about how cool it is.  I think that’s why I feel a little more comfortable because of what I went through and how hard that path was. If I can conquer that, then it makes everything a little easier."

https://theathletic.com/4539081/2023/05/23/white-sox-jake-burger-breakout/

He has had a couple of good series but anyone who believes at this point he has fundamentally changed as a hitter I feel sorry for.

It's 17 games and a handful of at bats. Glad the Marlins recognized what he was doing previously wasnt going to be sustainable in the long run but its way to early to know whether Burger is going to be successful changing his approach at the plate. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Tough loss with the defense and Robertson collapsing after holding a lead for so long.

That last WC spot will come down to the wire with four teams fighting and now the DBacks suddenly surging with their own young/exciting/talented team.

(Noticed Stone Garrett is playing well recently as well.)

AH you remember Stone Garrett was one of my guys too that I mentioned who would be good to take a flyer on but the Nats picked him up before the Sox could . He's got 1.5 fWar in 86 games . He spent time in the minors this year and might've had an injury also. His line with the Nats is .279 , .351, .473, .825. I would've had a good off season despite the usual guff you take for suggesting guys no one knows about. But ultimately I didnt think the Dodgers were going to trade Outman and it's doubtful the Sox wouldve offered Garrett an MLB contract like the Nats did.

Edited August 20, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Buehrle>Wood]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

He has had a couple of good series but anyone who believes at this point he has fundamentally changed as a hitter I feel sorry for.

It's 17 games and a handful of at bats. Glad the Marlins recognized what he was doing previously wasnt going to be sustainable in the long run but its way to early to know whether Burger is going to be successful changing his approach at the plate. 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, Quin said:

lmao I moved it because like you said, Burger's not on the White Sox anymore and as I pointed out, it had become the Jake Burger Update Thread.

As for the bolded, holy s%*#, this is incredible hyperbole. I left a redirect link in Pale Hose and explained why it was moved, so if you think it is such a colossal effort for people to scroll two sections down to talk about Jake Burger, then maybe it was time to move to it to Diamond Talk.

I meant no disrespect . You are one of my favorite guys on Soxtalk. But it was quite a popular thread and yes moving it makes people forget about it. Pale Hose talk is by far the most popular thread in Soxtalk. It may not take a colossal effort to click 2 times but I think most Sox fans either use Pale Hose Talk or Future Sox most of the time. It's more a matter of breaking your usual patterns than effort.

I have no quarrel with it being a popular thread in Diamond Talk . You were just doing your job and sometimes I don't agree with everything Mods do. No biggie.

 Many people loved the Burger comeback story, his attitude and mostly his performance on the field and how he talked about actually using the things he needed to study pitchers at home and especially when he said it wasn't available on the road. I forget what the thing was called  but I do remember Ozzie making fun of it on the post games shows as if modern tech shouldn't mean so much to players but it does when someone wants to improve as much as Burger did. Instead of laughing about it Guillen should ve been applauding his desire to use a tool he thought was very helpful.

[wrathofhahn]

Not the end of Jake Burger but it remains to be seen if his future MLB career is that of a good hitter or replacement level player.

17 games doesn't really tell us anything except it does even out the trade more for the Marlins perspective because whether he replicates this or not moving forward the rest of his career Marlins need to win games now.

Edited August 20, 2023 by wrathofhahn

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

 

You know I understand doubling down on one's previous positions especially when we are a long long way from seeing how the trade works out. Early returns are way in the Marlins favor but what's a couple of weeks when we may need years to figure out how this trade worked out. It was one big leaguer with upside and tons of cheap control,which doesn't mean as much with a 27 yr old as it does a someone  younger. There was also his injury history , defense ,  and OBP  problems

If his assessment of Burger was he is who he is or that the power numbers are unsustainable I could agree with that partially. Not the he is who he is part. I never thought that was true. Development is not linear especially when you miss 3 years of it.

Burger would have to change his approach but he was always working on that though . If he wasn't he never would have got the 11 walks in July he got with the Sox. So now with the Marlins he's making use of how hard he hits the ball not just for long and max exit velo HR's but for using that high hard hit percentage to smash balls all over the field.

Maybe it would have happened with the Sox or maybe the Marlins showed him something that has paid off right away.

But for a guy to double down and now say he feels sorry for anyone who believes in Burger is even more arrogant than I can be. I don't need anyone's pity. I have strong opinions, positive opinions about Burger but I know his power numbers will suffer if he becomes a more well rounded hitter but he'll still be capable of big power numbers the better and smarter he becomes as a hitter.

I also realize that odds are always in the favor of someone who predicts failure for 27 yr old guys who haven't immediately shown they understand an advanced approach. It's really playing the odds more than anything else while you spout off numbers.

He really shouldn't feel sorry for us because we choose to believe he can get better even though we know the odds aren't with us but we have seen his attitude, desire and work ethic and yes even some encouraging results this season that suggests he really cares about being better. That's why so many people liked the guy.

If Jake fails, I'm not afraid of being wrong and liking a player and looking at the positive signs of his character and results to come to a conclusion that he can be better than he had shown with the Sox, which wasn't so bad .

Edited August 20, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Burger 4 for 7 today. One of the hottest hitters in MLB.

So is he now on a 10 game hitting streak ? Too bad the rest of the Marlins lineup had such a hard time with the Dodgers pitching.  Eury Perez looked amazing in his start in the 1st game.