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2024 Ownership Tanking Thread

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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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Entering this season, there are only two current franchises in their current locations without an 100 loss season. They reside in Los Angeles and Orange Counties.

In terms of the 30 current owners, five including Jerry Reinsdorf have lost 100 or more games in multiple seasons. Jerry can rise to the top of the list with another 100 loss season this season, coupled with the Pirates and Orioles avoiding an 100 loss season. Half, or 15 of the 30 current owners have tanked between one and three seasons during their current ownership tenures. Tom Werner is the 16th owner, but conducted his 100 loss season with the Padres before his current Red Sox role.

Before the revenue sharing era, many of these seasons consisted of expansion teams, owners in their first or last season. Now it seems to be a right of passage. The current Cardinals ownership group lost 91 games last season, the most among the 15 current ownership groups without an 100 loss season.

 

There have been a total of 168 one hundred + loss teams through the entire 148 year history of professional baseball entering the 2024 season:

  • 22 MLB Modern Era Teams - Current Owners (1981-2023)
  • 83 MLB Modern Era - Previous Owners (1947-2022)
  • 56 MLB Segregation Era (1901-1946)
  • 7 Pre MLB Era (1871-1900)

(168) Total 100 + Loss Seasons by Franchise (Current Franchises with 0 seasons also listed)

  • 14 Philadelphia Phillies (141 Seasons National League 1883-2023)
  • 11 Philadelphia Athletics (55 Seasons American League 1901-1954)
  • 11 Boston Nationals (77 Seasons National League 1876-1952)
  • 10 Pittsburgh Pirates (142 Seasons American Association 1882-1886 & National League 1887-2023)
  • 8 Saint Louis Browns (52 Seasons American League 1902-1953)
  • 7 Kansas City Royals (55 Seasons American League 1969-2023)
  • 7 Boston Red Sox (123 Seasons American League 1901-2023)
  • 7 Detroit Tigers (123 Seasons American League 1901-2023)
  • 6 New York Mets (62 Seasons National League 1962-2023)
  • 5 Seattle Mariners (47 Seasons American League 1977-2023)
  • 5 San Diego Padres (55 Seasons National League 1969-2023)
  • 5 Baltimore Orioles (70 Seasons 1954-2023)
  • 5 Cleveland Guardians (123 Seasons American League 1901-2023)
  • 5 Chicago White Sox (123 Seasons American League 1901-2023)
  • 4 Washington Senators II (11 Seasons American League 1961-1971)
  • 4 Kansas City Athletics (13 Seasons American League 1955-1967)
  • 4 Washington Senators (60 Seasons American League 1901-1960)
  • 4 Saint Louis Cardinals (142 Seasons American Association 1882-1891 & National League 1892-2023)
  • 3 Washington Nationals (19 Seasons National League 2005-2023)
  • 3 Tampa Bay Rays (26 Seasons American League 1998-2023)
  • 3 Miami Marlins (31 Seasons National League 1993-2023)
  • 3 Toronto Blue Jays (47 Seasons American League 1977-2023)
  • 3 Texas Rangers (52 Seasons American League 1972-2023)
  • 3 Oakland Athletics (56 Seasons American League 1968-2023)
  • 3 Houston Astros (62 Seasons National League 1962-2012 & American League 2013-2023)
  • 3 Chicago Cubs (148 Seasons National League 1876-2023)
  • 2 Arizona Diamondbacks (26 Seasons National League 1998-2023)
  • 2 Montreal Expos (36 Seasons National League 1969-2004)
  • 2 Atlanta (58 Seasons National League 1966-2023)
  • 2 Minnesota Twins (63 Seasons American League 1961-2023)
  • 2 Brooklyn Dodgers (74 Seasons American Association 1884-1889 & National League 1890-1957)
  • 2 New York Yankees (101 Seasons American League 1903-2023)
  • 2 Cincinnati Reds (142 Seasons American Association 1882-1889 & National League 1890-2023)
  • 1 Baltimore Terrapins (2 Seasons Federal League 1914-1915)
  • 1 Washington Senators (9 Seasons National League 1891-1899)
  • 1 Cleveland Spiders (13 Seasons American Association 1887-1888 & National League 1889-1899)
  • 1 Baltimore Orioles (18 Seasons American Association 1882-1891 & National League 1892-1899)
  • 1 Louisville Colonels (18 Seasons American Association 1882-1891 & National League 1892-1899)
  • 1 Colorado Rockies (31 Seasons National League 1993-2023)
  • 1 Milwaukee Brewers (54 Seasons American League 1970-1997 & National League 1998-2023)
  • 1 San Francisco Giants (66 Seasons National League 1958-2023))
  • 0 Los Angeles Angels (63 Seasons American League 1961-2023)
  • 0 Los Angeles Dodgers (66 Seasons National League 1958-2023)

 

(22) Modern Era Teams - Current Owners (1981-2023)

(3) Peter Angelos

(3) Robert Nutting

(2) Jim Crane

(2) John J. Fisher

(2) Jerry Reinsdorf

(10) Single Season

 

(83) MLB Modern Era - Previous Owners (1947-2022)

(6) David Glass

(5) Joan Whitney Payson

(4) John W. Galbreath

(3) Michael Ilitch

(3) Labatt Brewery

(3) C. Amholt Smith

(3) Charles O. Finley

(2) Claude Brochu

(2) Robert R. M. Carpenter Jr. (Across two eras)

(2) Ted Turner

(2) Danny Kaye & Lester Smith

(2) Phillip K. Wrigley 

(2) Richard E. Jacobs

(2) Vincent J. Naimoli

(2) James M. Johnston

(2) Bob Short

(2) Ted Lerner

(2) Nintendo of America

(2) Bill Veeck Junior

(2) Elwood R. "Pete" Quesada

(30) Single Season

 

 

(56) MLB Segregation Era (1901-1946)

(6) Gerald P. Nugent

(5) Benjamin Shibe & Connie Mack

(5) J. A. Robert Quinn

(5) Connie Mack (Across two eras)

(5) William F. Baker

 

(4) Emil Edwin Fuchs

(3) Thomas C. Noyes

(3) Robert Hedges

(2) Donald Lee Barnes 

(2) Frank & Stanley Robison Brothers (Previous Cleveland Spiders Owners)

(2) Arthur Soden

(2) Charles Ebbets

(2) William S. Devery & Frank J. Farrell

(10) Single Season

 

(7) Pre MLB Era (1871-1900)

(2) Chris Von der Ahe

(5) Single Season

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caulfield12 Grand Master

caulfield12

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How finishing as the worst team in 1954 and a Branch Rickey/Getz connection led to a HoF career...

 

"Anyway, I recently read somewhere that Clemente was the only bonus player immediately sent to the minors and thus left unprotected. I can't confirm if that's true, but Clemente was now eligible for the Major-Minor League Rule 5 Selection Committee. The Pirates, with the worst record in the National League, had the first pick. They were run by former Dodgers general manager Branch Rickey, and scouts Howie Haak and Clyde Sukeforth -- brought to Pittsburgh from Brooklyn by Rickey -- had seen Clemente during the International League season.

Branch Rickey Jr. represented the Pirates at the draft and selected Clemente. The price: $4,000.

And that's how the Pirates stole Roberto Clemente from the Dodgers.

As a footnote: When Branch Rickey Sr. finally saw Clemente play for the first time in the Winter League after the Pirates drafted him, he was not impressed, remarking on Clemente's timid play on the bases and in the field and his disappointing foot speed. Rickey did admit, however, that the kid had a good throwing arm. Clemente had to spend the entire 1955 season on the Pirates' roster since he originally signed for more than $6,000; he hit just .255 with a .284 OBP and a .382 slugging percentage, plus five home runs, in 474 at-bats. While he hit .311 the next season, he hit just 26 home runs his first five seasons and didn't have his breakout season at the plate until 1960, when he was 25 and his power finally developed."

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/62869/how-the-pirates-stole-roberto-clemente-from-the-dodgers

Edited by caulfield12
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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

How finishing as the worst team in 1954 and a Branch Rickey/Getz connection led to a HoF career...

 

"Anyway, I recently read somewhere that Clemente was the only bonus player immediately sent to the minors and thus left unprotected. I can't confirm if that's true, but Clemente was now eligible for the Major-Minor League Rule 5 Selection Committee. The Pirates, with the worst record in the National League, had the first pick. They were run by former Dodgers general manager Branch Rickey, and scouts Howie Haak and Clyde Sukeforth -- brought to Pittsburgh from Brooklyn by Rickey -- had seen Clemente during the International League season.

Branch Rickey Jr. represented the Pirates at the draft and selected Clemente. The price: $4,000.

And that's how the Pirates stole Roberto Clemente from the Dodgers.

As a footnote: When Branch Rickey Sr. finally saw Clemente play for the first time in the Winter League after the Pirates drafted him, he was not impressed, remarking on Clemente's timid play on the bases and in the field and his disappointing foot speed. Rickey did admit, however, that the kid had a good throwing arm. Clemente had to spend the entire 1955 season on the Pirates' roster since he originally signed for more than $6,000; he hit just .255 with a .284 OBP and a .382 slugging percentage, plus five home runs, in 474 at-bats. While he hit .311 the next season, he hit just 26 home runs his first five seasons and didn't have his breakout season at the plate until 1960, when he was 25 and his power finally developed."

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/62869/how-the-pirates-stole-roberto-clemente-from-the-dodgers

I noticed the Pirates suffered their worst stretch of baseball into the Bob Nutting regime when Galbreath hired Branch Rickey to start the 1950s. 

The Dodgers had four equal 25% owners include the 25% owned by Branch, until 25% owner John L. Smith died in the Summer of 1950. Life long scumbag Walter O’Malley scooped up his shares, giving him 50%.

After the 1950 season concluded, O’Malley reworked Rickey’s contract to strip him of nearly all of his power. Rickey refused to sign the contract. O’Malley offered to buy Rickey out, and he sold after he goosed up the purchase price via a friend’s offer, which O’Malley begrudgingly offered $5,000 more to gain effective 75% control of the team.

Galbreath immediately offered Rickey an offer to run his old (oldest team in the majors) moribund (96 losses in 1950) team, and Rickey accepted. Rickey stayed for five years and while the records remained poor during his tenure, when he retired due to poor health, he left the Pirates as the youngest team in baseball, one which in five years would win the World Series.

Quote

"The core of the 1960 championship team, Roberto Clemente, Dick Groat, Bill Mazeroski, Elroy Face and Vern Law, among others, was put together and nurtured by Rickey.” 

- Andrew O’Toole

Once the new Forbes business of baseball 2024 article is released (2024 valuations, 2023 income and other financials), I will post here how recent tanking teams made out vs. the rest of the league. Will create the template during the radio broadcast of the Six game this afternoon.

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oldsox Grand Master

oldsox

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On 3/9/2024 at 1:34 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

I noticed the Pirates suffered their worst stretch of baseball into the Bob Nutting regime when Galbreath hired Branch Rickey to start the 1950s. 

The Dodgers had four equal 25% owners include the 25% owned by Branch, until 25% owner John L. Smith died in the Summer of 1950. Life long scumbag Walter O’Malley scooped up his shares, giving him 50%.

After the 1950 season concluded, O’Malley reworked Rickey’s contract to strip him of nearly all of his power. Rickey refused to sign the contract. O’Malley offered to buy Rickey out, and he sold after he goosed up the purchase price via a friend’s offer, which O’Malley begrudgingly offered $5,000 more to gain effective 75% control of the team.

Galbreath immediately offered Rickey an offer to run his old (oldest team in the majors) moribund (96 losses in 1950) team, and Rickey accepted. Rickey stayed for five years and while the records remained poor during his tenure, when he retired due to poor health, he left the Pirates as the youngest team in baseball, one which in five years would win the World Series.

Once the new Forbes business of baseball 2024 article is released (2024 valuations, 2023 income and other financials), I will post here how recent tanking teams made out vs. the rest of the league. Will create the template during the radio broadcast of the Six game this afternoon.

Good description.

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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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A 50% increase in 2024 over 2007 equals a 0% increase in spending in terms of inflation adjusted dollars. So while Oakland is the lone team which decreased spending in actual dollars, six additional teams including the White Sox have decreased spending in inflation adjusted dollars in 2024 vs. 2007 payroll. 

Decrease in inflation adjusted spending 2007 vs. 2024:

  1. 73% Oakland
  2. 47% Baltimore
  3. 34% Detroit
  4. 21% Boston
  5. 19% Seattle
  6. 17% Chicago A. L.
  7. 2% Cincinnati
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caulfield12 Grand Master

caulfield12

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5 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

A 50% increase in 2024 over 2007 equals a 0% increase in spending in terms of inflation adjusted dollars. So while Oakland is the lone team which decreased spending in actual dollars, six additional teams including the White Sox have decreased spending in inflation adjusted dollars in 2024 vs. 2007 payroll. 

Decrease in inflation adjusted spending 2007 vs. 2024:

  1. 73% Oakland
  2. 47% Baltimore
  3. 34% Detroit
  4. 21% Boston
  5. 19% Seattle
  6. 17% Chicago A. L.
  7. 2% Cincinnati

All five AL Central teams are in the Bottom 13 teams on that list.

Three NL Central in Bottom 10...Reds Pirates Brewers.

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T R U Grand Master

T R U

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Baltimore should be embarrassed. You have a team that already won 100 games and could really pave the way to a dynasty and you can't even spend 100 million on your payroll. Their cheap ways and hopes that every prospect works out for them is going to bite them in the ass.

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T R U Grand Master

T R U

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2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

All five AL Central teams are in the Bottom 13 teams on that list.

Three NL Central in Bottom 10...Reds Pirates Brewers.

The Sox at $145 but I bet they would do anything to wipe out the $40.3 million Moncada, Benintendi, and Jimenez make up.

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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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1 hour ago, T R U said:

The Sox at $145 but I bet they would do anything to wipe out the $40.3 million Moncada, Benintendi, and Jimenez make up.

The question is will they spend some or any of the savings next year once these two deals off the books?

They could have traded Cease and Benintendi to the Dodgers or Mets for lower end prospects, and either could just DFA’d Benintendi and not batted an eye financially to acquire Cease.

This would have left the Sox with just $33.5M guaranteed in 2025 ($15M Robert, $7.5M Fedde plus Yoan ($5M), Eloy ($3M) plus misc. $3M (Brebbia, Stasdi, Hendricks) with a shot at a $50M-$60M payroll from 2025 forward just cycling through league minimum guys.

As it stands, they might not cross the $100M mark the rest of this decade without a change in ownership or substantial sustained progress which will eventually draw fans back to the ballpark.

The only good out of this is the Sox did acquire several good prospects who might help them later in the decade.

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T R U Grand Master

T R U

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5 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The question is will they spend some or any of the savings next year once these two deals off the books?

They could have traded Cease and Benintendi to the Dodgers or Mets for lower end prospects, and either could just DFA’d Benintendi and not batted an eye financially to acquire Cease.

This would have left the Sox with just $33.5M guaranteed in 2025 ($15M Robert, $7.5M Fedde plus Yoan ($5M), Eloy ($3M) plus misc. $3M (Brebbia, Stasdi, Hendricks) with a shot at a $50M-$60M payroll from 2025 forward just cycling through league minimum guys.

As it stands, they might not cross the $100M mark the rest of this decade without a change in ownership or substantial sustained progress which will eventually draw fans back to the ballpark.

The only good out of this is the Sox did acquire several good prospects who might help them later in the decade.

I don't know, but they shed a lot of salary commitments at the deadline and didn't make any meaningful signings this off-season even when they said they couldn't "waste a year" so who knows.

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fathom Grand Master

fathom

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7 minutes ago, T R U said:

I don't know, but they shed a lot of salary commitments at the deadline and didn't make any meaningful signings this off-season even when they said they couldn't "waste a year" so who knows.

Based on what the attendance will be this year, I expect another offseason of cost-cutting measures 

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southsider2k5 Grand Master

southsider2k5

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6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Based on what the attendance will be this year, I expect another offseason of cost-cutting measures 

There it is.  We are already down 100 million dollars on paper for '20-22.  '23 comes out soon, and will the fall in attendance I see no reason to think that won't be another 8 figure loss.  I am sure the real losses aren't as bad, but this team has seen its revenue dive hard the last few seasons.

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South Side Hit Men Grand Master

South Side Hit Men

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With Cot's Contracts updated through Opening Day, below are the net increases / decreases in net payroll in millions between the Opening Day 26 Man Payrolls in 2024 and 2023 as reported by Cot's Contracts.

The lone team below the White Sox was the result of their owner dying and the estate liquidating payroll.

  1. $85.9 NLW Los Angeles N. L. ($308.5 vs. $222.6) 
  2. $62.2 ALW Houston ($242.0 vs. $179.8) 
  3. $47.2 NLW Arizona ($163.3 vs. $116.1) 
  4. $32.2 ALE Baltimore ($93.0 vs. $60.8) 
  5. $30.0 NLC Chicago N. L.  ($214.2 vs. $184.2) 
  6. $29.7 ALW Texas ($225.5 vs. $195.8) 
  7. $24.6 ALE Tampa Bay ($97.7 vs, $73.1)
  8. $23.0 ALC Kansas City ($115.4 vs, $92.4)
  9. $20.3 NLW San Francisco ($208.2 vs. $187.9)
  10. $20.2 NLE Atlanta ($223.2 vs. $203.0)
  11. $19.2 ALE New York A. L. ($296.9 vs. $277.7)
  12. $15.5 ALE Toronto Blue Jays ($225.4 vs. $209.9)
  13. $13.1 NLC Pittsburgh ($86.3 vs. $73.2)
  14.   $9.2 ALC Cleveland ($98.6 vs, $89.4)
  15.   $7.6 NLC Cincinnati ($90.4 vs, $82.8) 
  16.   $5.2 ALW Oakland ($62.0 vs. $56.8) 
  17.   $2.2 ALW Seattle ($139.6 vs. $137.4) 
  18.   ($0.3) NLE Miami ($92.2 vs. $92.5)
  19.   ($0.5) NLE Philadelphia ($242.5 vs. $243.0)
  20.   ($1.3) NLC Saint Louis ($175.2 vs. $176.5)
  21.   ($8.1) NLE New York N. L.  ($322.5 vs. $330.6)
  22. ($11.0) ALE Boston ($170.2 vs. $181.2)
  23. ($14.4) NLC Milwaukee ($104.3 vs. $118.7)
  24. ($23.3) NLE Washington ($124.4 vs. $101.1)
  25. ($24.5) ALC Detroit ($97.7 vs. $122.2)
  26. ($26.4) ALC Minnesota ($127.3 vs. $153.7)
  27. ($29.0) NLW Colorado ($143.1 vs. $172.1)
  28. ($42.3) ALW Los Angeles A. L. ($169.9 vs. $212.2)
  29. ($57.3) ALC Chicago A. L. ($123.8 vs. $181.1)
  30. ($84.4) NLW San Diego ($164.5 vs. $248.9)
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