20 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Gilbert and Clifford

Yes to Clifford, who the Sox apparently liked in that draft. Personally not a fan of Gilbert.

10 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

 

Shirley seems like an improvement and has a good knack for spotting first round talent, but we still have a ways to go from a depth standpoint.  Need to hit on a few later picks too.  

2019 - pretty sparse after Vaughn, Thomas and Dahlquist have struggled

2020 - pretty sparse after Crochet, Kelley has struggled

2021 - pretty sparse after Montgomery though it's obviously early

2022 - after Schultz, you have Cannon and not much else at this point though it's early

2023 - after Gonzalez, it's obviously early, but hopefully Taylor develops

 

Well, he's a heck of a lot better than Hostetler, who was absolutely atrocious.  But whether he's particularly good remains to be seen.

He punted way too much in 2019 and 2020 so that he could sign 3 high school pitchers, all 3 of whom are absolute busts.  Heck, he punted 60% of the 2020 draft so that they could sign Jared Kelley.  
He's cut down on the punting and on the high school pitching.  Fortunately, Shultz looks like a big winner.
 

 

Just now, GreenSox said:

Well, he's a heck of a lot better than Hostetler, who was absolutely atrocious.  But whether he's particularly good remains to be seen.

He punted way too much in 2019 and 2020 so that he could sign 3 high school pitchers, all 3 of whom are absolute busts.  Heck, he punted 60% of the 2020 draft so that they could sign Jared Kelley.  
He's cut down on the punting and on the high school pitching.  Fortunately, Shultz looks like a big winner.
 

 

 

Yeah, it's obviously early on the rest but 2019-20 were total busts after the first rounds.  That's coloring things a bit.  

14 minutes ago, bighurt574 said:

 

Shirley seems like an improvement and has a good knack for spotting first round talent, but we still have a ways to go from a depth standpoint.  Need to hit on a few later picks too.  

2019 - pretty sparse after Vaughn, Thomas and Dahlquist have struggled

2020 - pretty sparse after Crochet, Kelley has struggled

2021 - pretty sparse after Montgomery though it's obviously early

2022 - after Schultz, you have Cannon and not much else at this point though it's early

2023 - after Gonzalez, it's obviously early, but hopefully Taylor develops

 

What is it you're grading, here?

Shirley's first draft was 2020. 

27 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Yes to Clifford, who the Sox apparently liked in that draft. Personally not a fan of Gilbert.

Pretty sure Sox liked Gilbert in the draft too

 

Flexen, Fedde, and Crochet are worth more and more each day in this market.

 

Big game tonight.  Crochet against a good hitting team and Crochet against specifically the Dodgers.

  I don't know if the Dodgers lineup with the Sox prospect-wise (although I'm sure we could make something work) but they could really minimize the Crochet risk as they don't need him to help win a division:  they just need him for the postseason.  Also I have this inkling that, for better or probably worse, Getz might try to stuff Benintendi into one of these trades, and they could obviously make that happen.

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Well, he's a heck of a lot better than Hostetler, who was absolutely atrocious.  But whether he's particularly good remains to be seen.

He punted way too much in 2019 and 2020 so that he could sign 3 high school pitchers, all 3 of whom are absolute busts.  Heck, he punted 60% of the 2020 draft so that they could sign Jared Kelley.  
He's cut down on the punting and on the high school pitching.  Fortunately, Shultz looks like a big winner.
 

 

2019 wasn’t Shirley’s and 2020 was only 5 rounds and they found Crochet, which that pick alone makes it a win.

16 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Big game tonight.  Crochet against a good hitting team and Crochet against specifically the Dodgers.

  I don't know if the Dodgers lineup with the Sox prospect-wise (although I'm sure we could make something work) but they could really minimize the Crochet risk as they don't need him to help win a division:  they just need him for the postseason.  Also I have this inkling that, for better or probably worse, Getz might try to stuff Benintendi into one of these trades, and they could obviously make that happen.

I’ve endured a lot of bullshit and stupidity in my time as a Sox fan, but if Getz forces Benitendi into a Robert or Crochet that might just kill my remaining fandom.  Would be the absolutely dumbest thing ever as we are a long ways away from money being hindrance from competing.

44 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’ve endured a lot of bullshit and stupidity in my time as a Sox fan, but if Getz forces Benitendi into a Robert or Crochet that might just kill my remaining fandom.  Would be the absolutely dumbest thing ever as we are a long ways away from money being hindrance from competing.

I mean Getz is the GM, but that would 100% be Jerry's poodle being dogwalked if he did it.  Benny is a sunk cost, don't multiply the losses by forcing him into a deal.

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Big game tonight.  Crochet against a good hitting team and Crochet against specifically the Dodgers.

  I don't know if the Dodgers lineup with the Sox prospect-wise (although I'm sure we could make something work) but they could really minimize the Crochet risk as they don't need him to help win a division:  they just need him for the postseason.  Also I have this inkling that, for better or probably worse, Getz might try to stuff Benintendi into one of these trades, and they could obviously make that happen.

It would be for the better.  They have an opportunity to get out from under a god awful contract and they have to take it.  They didn't get out from under Grandal's horrific contract and he weighed the team down to the very end.  It was a total disaster and the same thing will happen with Benintendi unless they do something about it now.  

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Big game tonight. 

Huge too since last start he finally was showing signs of being human. Need to see how his strength bounces back.

29 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It would be for the better.  They have an opportunity to get out from under a god awful contract and they have to take it.  They didn't get out from under Grandal's horrific contract and he weighed the team down to the very end.  It was a total disaster and the same thing will happen with Benintendi unless they do something about it now.  

This is a joke of an organization if they can't manage around this deal with only $50 million on the books, and only Benny on the books for beyond '25.

31 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It would be for the better.  They have an opportunity to get out from under a god awful contract and they have to take it.  They didn't get out from under Grandal's horrific contract and he weighed the team down to the very end.  It was a total disaster and the same thing will happen with Benintendi unless they do something about it now.  

What about the context, though? Back then, we were trying to win, and could have put those free agent $$ anytime soon.  
Today, unless I'm missing something, the Sox won't be investing in FAs anytime soon.

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is a joke of an organization if they can't manage around this deal with only $50 million on the books, and only Benny on the books for beyond '25.

Exactly what I was thinking.  Here are Benintendi’s salaries over the next three seasons until he is gone:

2025:  $16.5 million

2026:  $16.5 million

2027:  $14.5 million

This past offseason, Getz spent $16.1 million on Brebbia ($5.5M), Maldonado ($4.5M), Lopez ($4.3M), and Tim Hill ($1.8M; already cut).  All signings that most competent GMs wouldn’t make and would definitely wish they could undo at this point.

So what player or players is our wizard of a GM missing out on signing with $16.5 million?  The prospect return for Crochet in a trade without screwing it up by including Benintendi’s contract is worth more than the absolute crap players Getz would no doubt sign with that freed up $16.5 million.

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

28 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It would be for the better.  They have an opportunity to get out from under a god awful contract and they have to take it.  They didn't get out from under Grandal's horrific contract and he weighed the team down to the very end.  It was a total disaster and the same thing will happen with Benintendi unless they do something about it now.  

Yes, the number one focus for a team on pace to win 43 games with no other long-term commitments should be dumping a $55M contract over trying to get the most talent possible for their best two players.  ?

5 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

What about the context, though? Back then, we were trying to win, and could have put those free agent $$ anytime soon.  
Today, unless I'm missing something, the Sox won't be investing in FAs anytime soon.

Why not? They'll have money to spend with Moncada, Eloy and maybe Robert (among others) off the books and if they don't get Benintendi's money off the books now they'll just keep playing him to the bitter end just like they did with Grandal.  He's not going to sit making that kind of money.  They have to do it now.

lol…this s%*# is absolutely hilarious.  Dump Benintendi’s $55M contract so Getz can go out and sign the next Benintendi.  What a fucking awesome plan!

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

lol…this s%*# is absolutely hilarious.  Dump Benintendi’s $55M contract so Getz can go out and sign the next Benintendi.  What a fucking awesome plan!

Not sure what’s worse — this idea or defending the Oldy Moldy acquisition to the bitter end.

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

lol…this s%*# is absolutely hilarious.  Dump Benintendi’s $55M contract so Getz can go out and sign the next Benintendi.  What a fucking awesome plan!

It is this sort of stupidity which puts on kids on the bench for this clowns who we aren't going to get back anything for anyway. Like what does Jerry think is going to happen here, Benny is all of the sudden going to turn into a superstar and they can dump the contract for him?  If you are done with him, dump him.  Quick making a mistake into even more mistakes.  I swear Jerry failed Economics and the Sunk Cost principle.

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

What is it you're grading, here?

Shirley's first draft was 2020. 

ha, fair, thought somebody mentioned ‘19 

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

lol…this s%*# is absolutely hilarious.  Dump Benintendi’s $55M contract so Getz can go out and sign the next Benintendi.  What a fucking awesome plan!

That's how we ended up in this idiotic cycle.  Non QO Rodon, but decide the erratic Kimbrel is somehow worth it.

End up dumping Kimbrel on the Dodgers for Pollock, when he never should have been in the OF in the first place.

Pollock opting to do anything possible to get out of Dodge leads directly to Benintendi taking the money and "running" (well, more like Lolly-gagging in LF.

More help for the Sox pitchers values.

 

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Not sure what’s worse — this idea or defending the Oldy Moldy acquisition to the bitter end.

That’s a tough one.  I mean, on one hand you have the argument that $55M for a team on pace to win 43 games with no other bad money and an owner who won’t spend on legit stars anyways is somehow more valuable than young controllable talent.

On the other hand, you have the argument that a catcher who is currently the worst offensive player in major league history with over 120 plate appearances (out of a +40k sample) who is also providing negative value in terms of blocking, throwing, and framing is somehow worth it because of how he “handles” the pitching staff despite CERA saying otherwise.

And with both arguments laid out, I think I’ll go with defending Oldy Moldy to the end being the worst one.  I mean we’re talking about the worst fucking hitter since 1871, but when you hate analytics more than anything other than Jeremy Haber’s laptop and Nick Madrigal’s small stature it’s not surprising he may not fully realize how epically bad Martin has been this year.

41 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yes, the number one focus for a team on pace to win 43 games with no other long-term commitments should be dumping a $55M contract over trying to get the most talent possible for their best two players.  ?

Don’t doubt a Jerry Reinsdorf owned Sox team.

Edited June 24, 20241 yr by Bob Sacamano