WhiteSox2023 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: 108 wRC+ against RHP in 1,512 PA’s prior to this season isn’t what I’d call mediocre, just not nearly as good as his production against LHP. Not sure why you would exclude his numbers for this season. And yes, those numbers are mediocre for a supposed “star” player earning $15 million dollars. When Benintendi is outplaying you and earning more of his salary than you, that’s embarrassing. Both guys need to go bye bye. Edited July 9 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Dang, I remember a few months ago fending off all those arguing that Luis had substantially more trade value than Bellinger, who was traded for peanuts in the offseason. I don’t even care what Bellinger is making $ wise over his remaining contract, I’d take him 10/10 times over Luis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 31 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Dang, I remember a few months ago fending off all those arguing that Luis had substantially more trade value than Bellinger, who was traded for peanuts in the offseason. I don’t even care what Bellinger is making $ wise over his remaining contract, I’d take him 10/10 times over Luis. Considering we know the Reds offered Arroyo and another top 5 prospect if the Sox picked up salary in the off season, you were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) I can't think of a good fit for Robert. Hell, maybe Milwaukee again with Vaughn off to a good start there. Or the Cubs. Do they need a pinch hitter type for the stretch run or a regular DH? The Royals might be a landing spot but KC doesn't make real trades with the Sox. Edited July 9 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 10 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Not sure why you would exclude his numbers for this season. And yes, those numbers are mediocre for a supposed “star” player earning $15 million dollars. When Benintendi is outplaying you and earning more of his salary than you, that’s embarrassing. Both guys need to go bye bye. Lol…let’s just completely ignore position, defense, and handedness. If you think a 108 wRC+ against same side pitching is somehow mediocre for a gold glove caliber CF then you’re either being purposely ignorant or complaining just to complain. As for the “why exclude his current season”, his current season against RHP is a massive outlier and he’s been productive against them historically. If you are an opposing GM looking at acquiring him, you have to decide if this is a start of a new trend or a one-time blurb that can be fixed. Packaging it all together and saying “see he’s always been bat against RHP” is both untrue and lazy analysis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Lol…let’s just completely ignore position, defense, and handedness. If you think a 108 wRC+ against same side pitching is somehow mediocre for a gold glove caliber CF then you’re either being purposely ignorant or complaining just to complain. As for the “why exclude his current season”, his current season against RHP is a massive outlier and he’s been productive against them historically. If you are an opposing GM looking at acquiring him, you have to decide if this is a start of a new trend or a one-time blurb that can be fixed. Packaging it all together and saying “see he’s always been bat against RHP” is both untrue and lazy analysis. I said he’s been “mediocre”, not bad, which he has been now for the past 1.5 seasons. And that’s when he’s not injured. And where did I ignore his handedness? Yes, I realize a righty is typically a better hitter against lefties and vice versa. Talking Robert up over and over isn’t going to improve the trade return on him no matter how much you hope and wish it will. Unfortunately, Getz didn’t trade Robert sooner, he performed even worse, and now the trade return on him will be even weaker. Time to accept the cold hard truth. It sucks, but oh well… Edited July 9 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I said he’s been “mediocre”, not bad, which he has been now for the past 1.5 seasons. And that’s when he’s not injured. And where did I ignore his handedness? Yes, I realize a righty is typically a better hitter against lefties and vice versa. Talking Robert up over and over isn’t going to improve the trade return on him no matter how much you hope and wish it will. Unfortunately, Getz didn’t trade Robert sooner, he performed even worse, and now the trade return on him will be even weaker. Time to accept the cold hard truth. It sucks, but oh well… It won’t improve the trade return…Robert has tanked his value unfortunately. I fully agree with you there. But this season is very odd for him and I actually believe he will join another org and they will find a way to right the ship. The physical talent is all still there and it really sucks we’re going to have little show for him when this trade deadline is all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 I wish Robert jr. had as much trade interest as Byron Buxton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Talking Robert up over and over isn’t going to improve the trade return on him no matter how much you hope and wish it will. Conversely, talking a player down isn't some much-needed stream of "truth-telling". I think you're being mostly fair about Robert, here, but I find my attitude towards players drifting towards dread just from reading the game threads and all, then I'm surprised when reading a national viewpoint of a player that doesn't frame them as total s%*# who offends everybody just by being alive. I'm happy for Chicago White Sox dude to offer some balance on the view of Robert, not because I love Chris Getz and it destroys my world to read negativity, but because he is being realistic in the face of resentful dudes skewing our expectations towards DFA-land. While the ship of Arroyo+ has sailed, I trust Getz is still targeting some post-hype project or two to rehab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 25 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Conversely, talking a player down isn't some much-needed stream of "truth-telling". I think you're being mostly fair about Robert, here, but I find my attitude towards players drifting towards dread just from reading the game threads and all, then I'm surprised when reading a national viewpoint of a player that doesn't frame them as total s%*# who offends everybody just by being alive. I'm happy for Chicago White Sox dude to offer some balance on the view of Robert, not because I love Chris Getz and it destroys my world to read negativity, but because he is being realistic in the face of resentful dudes skewing our expectations towards DFA-land. While the ship of Arroyo+ has sailed, I trust Getz is still targeting some post-hype project or two to rehab. Roberts numbers across the board suck ass. It IS truth telling because he has sucked for the better part of the last two seasons. game threads are what they are and always have been. If you don’t like them then don’t participate in them, but they have always been an extremely knee jerk reaction mostly negative place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: It won’t improve the trade return…Robert has tanked his value unfortunately. I fully agree with you there. But this season is very odd for him and I actually believe he will join another org and they will find a way to right the ship. The physical talent is all still there and it really sucks we’re going to have little show for him when this trade deadline is all said and done. Perhaps. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help the Sox any. 52 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Conversely, talking a player down isn't some much-needed stream of "truth-telling". I think you're being mostly fair about Robert, here, but I find my attitude towards players drifting towards dread just from reading the game threads and all, then I'm surprised when reading a national viewpoint of a player that doesn't frame them as total s%*# who offends everybody just by being alive. I'm happy for Chicago White Sox dude to offer some balance on the view of Robert, not because I love Chris Getz and it destroys my world to read negativity, but because he is being realistic in the face of resentful dudes skewing our expectations towards DFA-land. While the ship of Arroyo+ has sailed, I trust Getz is still targeting some post-hype project or two to rehab. Of course White Sox fans are going to have a much more critical opinion of their former star player who has turned into a shell of himself while watching him play daily (when he isn’t injured of course) compared to the national viewpoint of some writer that barely watches Robert play and simply remembers that season two years ago when he was really good. This shouldn’t be a surprise to you at all. It makes sense. Edited July 9 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Not sure why you would exclude his numbers for this season. And yes, those numbers are mediocre for a supposed “star” player earning $15 million dollars. When Benintendi is outplaying you and earning more of his salary than you, that’s embarrassing. Both guys need to go bye bye. To be clear, Robert has been a major disappointment and stinks. A 108 wRC+ as a CF with + defense and base running is a 4 WAR player. Far from sucking. That doesn't change the fact that he's a lost player now who is in between and looking like he'll never come out of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Falstaff said: I wish Robert jr. had as much trade interest as Byron Buxton. Yeah if he were putting up Buxton numbers this year: 🤑 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 44 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Roberts numbers across the board suck ass. It IS truth telling because he has sucked for the better part of the last two seasons. game threads are what they are and always have been. If you don’t like them then don’t participate in them, but they have always been an extremely knee jerk reaction mostly negative place Dude, I'm aware that game threads are negative and do try to avoid. Point being that all over the internet, people get on and emote over every strikeout and whatnot (not a criticism of your site, so relax), and reading that, one would get the impression that Luis Robert has no business playing baseball anymore. Chicago White Sox dude's opinion (and others') adds weight to the reality side of the group opinion. Robert's value is not zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 9 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Dude, I'm aware that game threads are negative and do try to avoid. Point being that all over the internet, people get on and emote over every strikeout and whatnot (not a criticism of your site, so relax), and reading that, one would get the impression that Luis Robert has no business playing baseball anymore. Chicago White Sox dude's opinion (and others') adds weight to the reality side of the group opinion. Robert's value is not zero. Dude, Message board opinions are just that, opinions. You get so worked up on this site about what other people think and that’s like 90 percent of your arguments. “Group opinion” lmao, you love to just put everyone in a blob against you. Chicago White Sox can say what he wants I’m not sure why you feel like it feeds into some actual weighted opinion that will affect the trade. i listen to Jon Heyman when he calls into the score (🤮) and he keeps talking about how little value Robert has and how the Sox will have to be creative to move him. Is his opinion not national? I don’t give a s%*# what he thinks but it’s the truth, we all know Robert is CAPABLE of being better but he is not playing good, or even mediocre, and any return for him will be most likely disappointing considering the talent in Robert 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 38 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Perhaps. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help the Sox any. Of course White Sox fans are going to have a much more critical opinion of their former star player who has turned into a shell of himself while watching him play daily (when he isn’t injured of course) compared to the national viewpoint of some writer that barely watches Robert play and simply remembers that season two years ago when he was really good. This shouldn’t be a surprise to you at all. It makes sense. I'm not "surprised" that fans who watch every rally killing strikeout ruminate on the bad rather than focus on the bigger story told by the stats. You generally mock people who understand that a guy struggling here still has value beyond yesterday's popout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 11 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Dude, Message board opinions are just that, opinions. You get so worked up on this site about what other people think and that’s like 90 percent of your arguments. “Group opinion” lmao, you love to just put everyone in a blob against you. Chicago White Sox can say what he wants I’m not sure why you feel like it feeds into some actual weighted opinion that will affect the trade. i listen to Jon Heyman when he calls into the score (🤮) and he keeps talking about how little value Robert has and how the Sox will have to be creative to move him. Is his opinion not national? I don’t give a s%*# what he thinks but it’s the truth, we all know Robert is CAPABLE of being better but he is not playing good, or even mediocre, and any return for him will be most likely disappointing considering the talent in Robert I'm just taking in you thinking the term "group opinion" is that funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 9 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Considering we know the Reds offered Arroyo and another top 5 prospect if the Sox picked up salary in the off season, you were wrong. Wrong. Rumors are rumors and unless something is finalized it’s all speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Wrong. Rumors are rumors and unless something is finalized it’s all speculation. Ok, this is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: It won’t improve the trade return…Robert has tanked his value unfortunately. I fully agree with you there. But this season is very odd for him and I actually believe he will join another org and they will find a way to right the ship. The physical talent is all still there and it really sucks we’re going to have little show for him when this trade deadline is all said and done. He wasn’t good in 2024 either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Ok, this is hilarious. There’s nothing inaccurate or funny about what I said. You doing victory laps based upon rumors alone is what’s funny.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 32 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I'm just taking in you thinking the term "group opinion" is that funny. Just as funny as you thinking you are some sort of unicorn thinker here. We are all laughing (in a group) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 13 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: There’s nothing inaccurate or funny about what I said. You doing victory laps based upon rumors alone is what’s funny.. You are trying to take a victory lap by pretending that everything you don't like isn't true, all so you can come back and try claim a win. We have that reporting, whether it hurts your feelings or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 I wonder if the Reds would still offer Arroyo for Robert straight up if we ate some salary considering Arroyo is also having a down year at least at the plate coming back from his injury. I know he is highly regarded defensively so I'm assuming he's still doing well at SS in the field. And he's still just a 21 year old at AA who is still getting OBP decently even if there is no power. Maybe both teams would be buying low on each player and we'd give the Reds some money too. Colson looks solid at SS so far in a small sample size but most analysts think he will still end up at 3B ultimately and we know Getz loves premium defenders in up the middle positions. I'm not sure we would get that much for Robert even if we threw in some cash but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: I'm not "surprised" that fans who watch every rally killing strikeout ruminate on the bad rather than focus on the bigger story told by the stats. You generally mock people who understand that a guy struggling here still has value beyond yesterday's popout. “Yesterday’s popup” does not equate to yet another long Vargas slump or Robert’s 1.5 season long slump of not hitting. You generally spout this type of hyperbole and continue to put words in other posters’ mouths. Edited July 9 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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